Per Nu-Hatta's request, I will attempt to not confuse mantling with incarnation.

Down to business now. How far can the mantle of a being stretch before its current wearer is a being all his own and has changed the mantle into something completely new. Take Akatosh for example.

The Convention splits Akatosh into Lorkhan who is son of Padomay (Akatosh son of Anu? [of course I mean Anu/Padomay as forces as opposed to actual deities]), and thus Akatosh's insanity is born when he lobotomizes himself and blasts out Lorkhan's heart. This creates Shor, who is the first mantle of Akatosh. So now we have Anu/Padomay>Akatosh/Lorkhan>Shor.

And separate from mantling, we see the first Shezzarine with Pelinal, but Pelinal's mantle is undoubtedly passed in the future.

Wulfharth is the next Shezzarine, so the path he takes to become Shor cannot technically be considered a mantling of Akatosh, but he does in fact mantle Shor, whose origin is Akatosh, so have we crossed the proverbial streams in this situation? This is where my question takes hold. What manner of being do we have at this point and later, when Tiber Septim comes into the mix?

By my figuring we have Shor as represented by Wulfharth (Underking) and Tiber Septim, who is nearly assassinated and becomes a new person so to speak. When the Underking is destroyed by Zurin Arctus (Underking also), Zurin's heart is blasted out as well, and he follows the path of Lorkhan and fits his way into the Enantiomorph (Talos/Zurin/Wulfharth [Shor]), and someone's soul all of their tessellate into the Mantella, which also reenacts the Convention, with the Heart of Lorkhan being replaced by the heart of Zurin Arctus, both of them planned pieces of Numidium at one time. So by this time, is it stupid to say that Enantiomorph can be traced back to the mantle of Akatosh?

(On a side note, I just realized that Talos is like a moth with a chrysalis, and his throat slitting was like a breaking of the chrysalis, ending with his apotheosis albeit much later. Also has anyone made a time line of Tiber Septim?)

And things don't get any less complicated when the Champion of Cyrodiil mantles Pelinal, BUT STILL is considered Shezzarine. Here is where things really do cross. How can we say that mantling and incarnation are completely separate when at this point a person accomplishes both? Here's the kicker:

The CoC does NOT appear to mantle anyone besides Pelinal. He has not been betrayed as Lorkhan was. He has not had his heart torn out. He has only fought elves and walked the path of Pelinal, finishing the fight Pelinal could not. So by this time, it seems that the mantle has changed significantly if not become something new entirely.

Your account of events is unfamiliar to me.

Removing Lorkhan's Heart kills Lorkhan. It doesn't create any new entities or have anything to do with mantling.

Anu/Padomay is the first dichotomy, mirrored by Akatosh/Lorkhan. Shor is just a cultural interpretation of Lorkhan, and their expectations are fulfilled by the generations of Shezarrines.

His mantle? I think you're doing what you promised not to, because IIRC Pelinal and the other champions of Shor that came before him are avatars by incarnation.


Wulfharth doesn't mantle anyone that I know of. He's just a myth echo. Myth echoes can do important things, but they're not part of some continuing process. If you think they are, then I think it's an idea that needs explanation.


You would say that the Enantiomorph re-plays the enantiomorph of Akatosh/Lorkhan. The enantiomorph created the universe, upon the first brush of Anu and Padomay. Akatosh and Lorkhan are two roles of another enantiomorph, creating Nirn.


Forever impossible, given that we only have an incomplete orthodox story and a concept document heresy not initially intended for release.

Is mantling Pelinal strictly necessary for the completion of the KotN quest? Why is the player considered Shezzarine? Pelinal was the incarnation of Akatosh and Shor both.


Nothing has changed. We mantled Pelinal, if anyone, a myth-echo. Pelinal was simply a reflection. He embodied a mythic relationship but did not alter or continue it in some way. He just (imo) made the pact with Alessia on behalf of two gods now remembered as one.