They have ledgers all around skyrim. and you know what, bard, artisan and bookkeeping are still 100% more useful then athletics and acrobatics


You don't have to say it, I was here when people were complaining the first time that acrobatics and athletics weren't in the game, most of the excuses were because they were in Oblivion. Literally that's it, that's literally all people cared about, that Bethesda removed a skill that was incredibly useless. It doesn't matter if it can be used for role-playing, a whole ton of skills in real life that could be used for role-playing aren't in the game that doesn't mean they should instantly be put in because they're a skill. That's why my points are good, my points are good because I'm not the one arguing for a broken system to be brought back, a system that could only be leveled through abuse and trainers and served no purpose in the game and was widely ignored by people.


You kidding? People complain about skyrim merging crap and taking away skills all the damn time.

So you think its just fine and dandy to make baseless assumptions about people despite evidence to the contrary? Seriously? That's low, even for a BGS forum.

Implying that everyone actually wants the broken and asinine mechanics back from Morrowind and Oblivion just the same as they were there. I certainly don't, but what I'd like to see is some older skills brought back in such a way that they're not fundamentally useless, and actually provide a way to diversify our characters in different ways that go far beyond what they did in previous installments of the series.

Because you're arguing the same arguments that the people who were angry "because it was in Oblivion but not skyrim" were arguing. It's not just that the mechanics were asinine and broken, it's that they were legit useless. Acrobatics never had a function, it never had a use, it was just hopping around like an idiot. That ain't role-playing, that's a useless skill.

It works just fine in non-3D games. Pillars of Eternity has Athletics checks all over the place, styled like Choose Your Own Adventure book.

But that's beside the point. We don't need a direct copy of Athetics and Acrobatics. We can take the skill in a new direction, making it more Outdoorsman like. We can use it in a hardcoe/survival mode. Longer sprinting. Faster swimming. Better resistances. Unlocking underwater combat. We have options.

Tamriel isn't medieval Europe, but that aside, accounting can trace its roots to antiquity. Where there was writing and money and trade, there was some form of bookkeeping. Modern accounting emerged as early as the 13th century. An Italian mathematician Luca Pacioli, who is considered the father of accounting, published his treatise on bookkeeping in 1494.

Whatever fits the little narrative you got going on in your head. If you're not going to bother to respond to legitimate concerns or the points in a argument that actually has substance to it, I don't see any reason why to continue on with this conversation. All I ask is that you try to approach things with an open mind, and not assume that just because someone says they'd like to see an older mechanic return, doesn't imply that they would want to see it return as a copy/paste from the older games dated mechanics.

No offense intended, but your beginning to sound like what I call "the bad people" (the people in this world who think that what they believe is the truth and that anyone who disagrees with them is [insulting word]) I don't like people like this because they defy logic they are also very hypocritical. Not saying you are a "bad person" just saying that your coming on to me like that, but then again my body seems to only see the suspicions in people. So sorry if I made a poor judgement. But only in a world where people are willing to admit that what the belive is they're opinion can the world be right.

Oh forgive me then I was wrong. See I am willing to admit that.

Moving to a different topic, merging some skills is not necessarily a bad idea. Some of them were too limited to do much of anything with (pick-pocketing) or would be better served to be rolled into a single archtype (Athletics/Acrobatics).

What is interesting, is that if used properly (with emphasis on the word properly), Skyrim's model of perks within skills actually gives us the ability to bring back older gameplay mechanics that once played host to their own unique Skills, and serve to actually diversify how we use certain Skill arch-types. A Skill like Survival would allow us to potentially see the return of the First Aid skill in a sense, allowing us the player have access to non-magical/alchemical healing methods. We would also be able to use Skills in a way that would actually make use different from another character who uses the exact same skill. Player A might have a really high Security skill with Perks invested in picking locks and cracking safes, but Player B who uses the Skill exemplifies it by being able to Disarm and Set Traps thanks to his Perks distribution being different from the other player. That is the type of system Beth should be striving for, allowing us to use Skills in radically different ways by offering real perk choice and depth within the game.

Adding in potential Attribute requirements and not forcing the player to choose specific perks for abilities they might want would be a good step in the right direction. The percentage perks also need to go, since they really don't do anything that your Skill level itself can't cover.