How To Fix Lockpicking........

Post » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:30 pm

If TES magic is so game breaking, mod it out?
I hate it when a mod is always the answer, but if you so personally don't like it, personally get rid of it.



i tried.......ended up causing crashes. i also tried moding out the beast races once but to the same effect. also it svcks when you have to change a major component of the game yourself that is obviously flawed. skyrim is moving away from the "master of all" craptacular gameplay to a more realistic specialized build which im supremely thankful for. it would be nice if stealth characters had some advantage. in oblivion they had no advantage. mages could become invisible or use chameleon, unlock everything. hell, mages made better thieves than thieves themselves.
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roxxii lenaghan
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:08 am

if bashing locks has a downside.........what exactly is supposed to be the downside of having alterations spells?


The downside to having any magic spell - you have to have a sufficient level to cast it, and it takes up mana.

Lockpicking should be character skill dependent, not player dependent.
Open spell is fine for non-stealth magic types (just choose to use one or the other)
A lock bash option should be included, but be dependent on some skill or attribute, and have shortcomings like a percentage of attracting hostiles or chest owners, or a chance of breaking the contents.



It should be based on Strength but also Luck would factor into it. Also there could be a perk which reduces sound and the likelihood of damaging items - called precision breakin or something.
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SamanthaLove
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:40 am

i tried.......ended up causing crashes. i also tried moding out the beast races once but to the same effect. also it svcks when you have to change a major component of the game yourself that is obviously flawed. skyrim is moving away from the "master of all" craptacular gameplay to a more realistic specialized build which im supremely thankful for. it would be nice if stealth characters had some advantage. in oblivion they had no advantage. mages could become invisible or use chameleon, unlock everything. hell, mages made better thieves than thieves themselves.

Here is an idea, mod the base cost of each spell effect, making each spell cost a stupid amount of magicka. Problem solved.
Why would you want to mod out the beast races? Just ignore them if you don't like them. I've never played as one, don't intend to, just not my thing. But I never felt the need to remove them.
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Marlo Stanfield
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:13 am

i tried.......ended up causing crashes. i also tried moding out the beast races once but to the same effect. also it svcks when you have to change a major component of the game yourself that is obviously flawed. skyrim is moving away from the "master of all" craptacular gameplay to a more realistic specialized build which im supremely thankful for. it would be nice if stealth characters had some advantage. in oblivion they had no advantage. mages could become invisible or use chameleon, unlock everything. hell, mages made better thieves than thieves themselve


Wouldn't know. Never played a mage. Sure, all my characters use Resto for healing spells, and get just enough Myst to enchant Soul Trap onto weapons, but other than that, the only thing I've ever used magic for is casting 1-pt "training spells" in order to build up my stat bonus or force a level gain.
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Karine laverre
 
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Post » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:57 pm

I am going to bust open all doors with my Dragon Shouts! Whether they are locked or not!

But really, if there is a mini-game with a huge amount of player dependence on the outcome, rather than depending on the character's level or skill, having the skill seems pointless.
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SexyPimpAss
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:41 am

Here is an idea, mod the base cost of each spell effect, making each spell cost a stupid amount of magicka. Problem solved.
Why would you want to mod out the beast races? Just ignore them if you don't like them. I've never played as one, don't intend to, just not my thing. But I never felt the need to remove them.



thats cause beast races looked like characters from a nickelodeon kids tv show in oblivion. they hopefully will make them better in skyrim.

upping the cost means they are still being sold and it just irks me. that was really early on when i didnt know jack about the CS so im sure that i did something wrong when i just tried deleting them. more than likely i had mods that depended on them as im sure was the case with supreme magicka.

people keep posting that it costs magicka........i dont get it. it takes literally 2 seconds in vanilla oblivion for you magicka to come back. i bet you spend more time getting the items out of the chest than it takes for your magicka to refill.
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Michael Korkia
 
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Post » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:31 pm

people keep posting that it costs magicka........i dont get it. it takes literally 2 seconds in vanilla oblivion for you magicka to come back. i bet you spend more time getting the items out of the chest than it takes for your magicka to refill.


Just how "awesome mage" do you make your characters?

Yeah, my characters (as I mentioned) generally only use Resto for some healing...... but it takes a bunch of levels before I can even cast a useful Heal spell, and then doing so svcks up half my magicka, which then takes enough time to recover that I've taken at least as much damage as I healed.
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Kat Ives
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:39 am

If you have a very high Willpower, yes, magicka recharges very fast. But if you're an Atronach or something it doesn't recharge at all. Honestly these games are much better balanced than some other series I've played when it comes to the stealth/magic/fighting categories. Magic was OP'ed in Oblivion slightly but you could beat most of the game without even using it.
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Rob Davidson
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:13 am

Just how "awesome mage" do you make your characters?

Yeah, my characters (as I mentioned) generally only use Resto for some healing...... but it takes a bunch of levels before I can even cast a useful Heal spell, and then doing so svcks up half my magicka, which then takes enough time to recover that I've taken at least as much damage as I healed.



before i started using supreme magicka i could literally cast an open lock spell on a very hard lock and by the time you have walked across the room to the next door your magic bar is full again. 2 seconds might have been an exaggeration but i was always full by the time i switched rooms. and remember im using a character with only one or two magic skills as majors. its been so long since ive played vanilla oblivion but i remember constantly spamming with my first mage characters. magic ideally should be very powerful but not something that you can cast over and over again willy nilly. if you hit your target it should be devastating...........but if you miss then you either have to use a restore magicak potion or run away till you can cast again.
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Charlotte Buckley
 
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Post » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:00 pm

  • No Inifinite use Skeleton Key for Level 10 Characters, especially ones with no Security skill.
  • Security should be unique in that it can disarm traps.
  • Alteration Open spell should be noisy until you level it up through perks.
  • You should also be able to bash locks.

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Siobhan Thompson
 
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Post » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:18 pm

How to fix lockpicking?

A skillcheck. No minigame. Fair for everyone.
That'd be my choice as well. Have the PC try to open it, and they either can or cannot ~mixed with an occasional lucky break that opens the lock.
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Susan
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:04 am

Amen Skeleton key made lockpicking useless, Illusion made Speechcraft, and sneaking useless NO MORE OP MAGIC
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Emma
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:53 am

I go on a roleplay basis. I'm either Combat/Stealth or Combat/Magic. If I'm magical then I use Alteration, if I'm Stealthy I use Lockpick. It's always nice to have options. I think Warriors should get the option to "bash" locks as well (with drawbacks of course, loud, chance of damage). If there was just one skill governing each gameplay mechanic I think the game would become stale. There'd be one Melee practice (probably Swords) and one Ranged option, etc. Do you see where I'm going with this? If you like Lockpicking then do it, nothing is stopping you. That being said improving the mechanics of that would be welcome.
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Kahli St Dennis
 
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Post » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:51 pm

I think the best way is to make both the player skill and security skill matter more. For example, you can only start opening hard locks at level 25 and you can only start opening very hard locks at level 50. Then at level 75 your character can muffle the sound of a lockpick breaking, and at 100 lockpicks don't break anymore. Everything else (how much leeway you have with your timing, the chance of keeping several pins up when you fail etc.) is improved for every single skill level.

Then, the lockpicking should be done in real time, so you have to hurry up sometimes to pick the lock in time before a guard shows up, and as indicated, a lockpick breaking would make a loud enough sound to wake a sleeping person up if you try to open the jewelry box on the nightstand at least.

The lockpicking minigame in oblivion really had the same fate as the speechcraft minigame. You can take all the time in the world, and it's not so bad if it goes wrong. This meant there was no challenge, and no reason to improve your security/speechcraft skill.

Well, first of all the "open" spells with alteration requires a lot of alteration skill. It takes journeyman level to open average locks after all. Of course if you powerleveled and had alteration as minor skill this isn't a problem, but that's not how most people play the game, and that issue won't be present in Skyrim. Secondly the alteration spells could be made loud. So it would be useful for opening loot in caves, or in basemants of people's houses, but not for house doors or anything in a room with an NPC present.

this is more along the lines of what i was thinking. needs to be similar for alteration as well, but its so dumb how you can be 49 and completely unable to try a lock but if you get that skilled up once more you would be fine.
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willow
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:02 am

Well, first of all the "open" spells with alteration requires a lot of alteration skill. It takes journeyman level to open average locks after all.

Really? I remember opening VERY HARD locks really early on with it. And to the suggestion that it be loud, that would be great, except a LOT of the time there are no NPCs in the same cell. They may be in the cell on the other side of the door, or a nearby room, but quite often not in the same cell, which makes it a lot easier to use. I think it should have a chance of failing, at least, but then you can just wait for your magicka to regenerate at no cost anyway so I guess there's no point :confused:
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T. tacks Rims
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:40 am

I'm fine with Oblivions system but it should be far more brutal if my skill is low and the lock is requiring high skill.
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Myles
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:15 am

what if you play a character that is bad at alteration? then you cant use open lock

This, basically. I had the same type of debate once, regarding Fortify Strength being grocely superior to Feather. The logic here is that we're talking about differing schools and skills. Some spells give you a substitute effect for something that you really should only be able to fully utilize with that other spell school.

Besides, once you get the Skeleton Key in Oblivion, you never need another lockpick, ever again. You can just spam the Auto-Lockpick until the lock opens. Personally though, I think you're bringing up a good point. Open Lock spells should have a failure rate implemented, so that you need to cast it multiple times and potentially deplete your Magicka. It makes no sense that the primary Lockpicking skill "Security" is less useful (overall speaking) than the "Alteration" substitute skill.

Ofc, Security also dealt with pickpocketing, but tbh I thought pickpocketing in Oblivion was fairly useless, at least as a general thing to do at your own behest. In a select few cases, Pickpocketing did have its bright moments.
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YO MAma
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:55 am

This, basically. I had the same type of debate once, regarding Fortify Strength being grocely superior to Feather. The logic here is that we're talking about differing schools and skills. Some spells give you a substitute effect for something that you really should only be able to fully utilize with that other spell school.

Besides, once you get the Skeleton Key in Oblivion, you never need another lockpick, ever again. You can just spam the Auto-Lockpick until the lock opens.

Yeah, but that's not a good thing. At least from what you responded to agreeing with it sounded like you thought it was good. Maybe you quoted th wrong thing.
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bonita mathews
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:51 am

Amen Skeleton key made lockpicking useless, Illusion made Speechcraft, and sneaking useless NO MORE OP MAGIC



You know, that reminds me.... I don't think I've ever used a Charm spell outside the one Mage Guild Recommendation quest where they hand you the scroll.

I suppose I should try a "pure mage" someday....


...which, now that I think about it, would never work. Because I've always been a fan of "jack of all trades/master of none" builds in games, and ES allows that to an amazing extent. My "pure mage" would quickly start gaining skill in things like armor, blade, etc, etc, etc.....
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Amber Hubbard
 
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Post » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:11 pm

You know, that reminds me.... I don't think I've ever used a Charm spell outside the one Mage Guild Recommendation quest where they hand you the scroll.

I suppose I should try a "pure mage" someday....


...which, now that I think about it, would never work. Because I've always been a fan of "jack of all trades/master of none" builds in games, and ES allows that to an amazing extent. My "pure mage" would quickly start gaining skill in things like armor, blade, etc, etc, etc.....

Oblivion's armour skills were too unbalanced anyway. I never chose them as major skills yet (whichever one I wore) was always one of the first skills to get to 100.
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mike
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:00 am

Open spells could just have a very high casting cost, such that it'd deplete the entire magicka bar of a mage casting an open spell around their skill level. This would give a bigger reason for thieves to use lockpicking, since to be able to cast open at all they'd have to spend points in magicka instead of health or stamina, which would be wasted if you weren't going to be a thief/mage that uses a combination of magic and stealth frequently.
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Breanna Van Dijk
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:42 am

I expect the open spell wont eat all that much power at lower lock levels but may require one have invested say 10 or so levels into magicka to manage it on harder locks.
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Dona BlackHeart
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:32 am

I expect the open spell wont eat all that much power at lower lock levels but may require one have invested say 10 or so levels into magicka to manage it on harder locks.

So... you think after 10 alteration levels, lockpicking should be completely useless?
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Ridhwan Hemsome
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:39 am

So... you think after 10 alteration levels, lockpicking should be completely useless?



"invested 10 levels in magika" probably meant "picked Magicka Increases - i.e, spell points - during multiple level ups" instead of "10 Alteration skill".

:shrug:
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Epul Kedah
 
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Post » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:11 pm

I don't really think it needs fixing. Lockpicking as it is in Oblivion is just fine imo.

Incidentally, when I play a Thief... I play a *thief* and not a thief-mage hybrid nor a mage who wants to be a thief. In other words, I leave Alteration out of the picture altogether.
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Emily Martell
 
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