My idea (which I posted elsewhere once I think) is this:

Remove the minigame entirely and replace it with a system kind of like Morrowinds. Remove the one use picks (because honestly, no pick will break after one use unless you somehow made one out of a combination of sand and tape :confused: ) and replace with either picks with a set number of uses similar to Morrowind or just give us an unbreakable pick off the bat. When you try and pick a lock the player will do an animation at the lock and loop the animation until the lock is opened. The time it takes to open the lock is based on the lock level and the player's Security skill. This is all done in real time.

Seeing how it is real time guards or civilians or whoever can still wander around and catch you, which makes looking around imperative. You can look around using the Mouse (or right stick). You wouldn't be able to spin all the way around, so if you wanted to look to the right, then the left you wouldn't just hold the anolog stick in one direction and spin endlessly. That way you can still get into anywhere fairly easy, but if you want to open a Very Hard lock with a level 10 security you will probably be there a while. Which my next part adds too.

Trapped locks. First off, bring them back. Second off, instead of making it a one time effect have it slowly hurt the character. When you find a lock that has a trap on it you have to disarm the trap before opening the lock. It's still automatic but it hurts you until you disarm it. I think this would be realistic, and challenging. I may be wrong though.

Yup basicaly it should cost enough by the higher levels you needed to invest 10 level ups into getting more magicka so you can afford the spells cost.

the downside? loss of magika. That's the only downside to all/most magic. What's the downside to lockpicking? broken lockpick? dupication glitch.

in what way was lockpicking broken. I still have not seen any rational arguments saying that it is. I never picked lock picking as a main skill and I only ever once had any lock picking problems. I ran out of picks in an ayleuid dungeon in which you have you jump off a balcony and pick a lock later to get out, I didn't have the open lock spell either. but that was one ocassion and I hadn't gotten good at the lock picking mini game at that point. I have never had a repeat of that instance.

It isn't broken, but the minigame makes the skill useless. Anyone with 10 lockpicks can get into any lock.

Aloharmora! Er.. I mean... a simple metal lockpick is supposed to be more powerful than the arcane arts? The people who love lore accuracy would spank you for that . I instead suggest shifting the skill requirements within alteration (50 or above for easy and very easy locks, 75 or above for average and hard locks, 100 for very hard locks) and make the spell very loud so that you can't use it safely until you kill every enemy in the vicinity.
As for the minigame, a simple addition of a time limit that depends on your skill level would fix it. Abusing the old system required a lot of time which said limit would render unavailable, forcing you to attempt it as fast as you can, as intended.

I don't think a time limit would work, instead they should go with more complicated locks for low level locks and more advanced and complicated high level locks. Your skill and perks in security could not only effect the chance of a lockpick breaking, but also how much of the lock is 'visible' for your character. something similar could be done for traps.

Lockpicking in Oblivion was made effortless with the deadric gift "Skeleton Key". Unbreakable lockpick. and gave 20 extra points for security. Used that one the most out of all the deadric tools.

Well I think they fixed the worry of it being a throw away skill by removing it. I thought the minigame was much better than the old ways like equipping a lock pick and using the attack button, it just wasn't interactive. However, the minigame should have more pins for the harder locks, such as going from 1-16 pins or something. As for alteration spells making lockpicking useless, it doesn't. It's an alternative to lock picking. There are some things that require a character to pick a lock and if your not a stealth character that raised the skill or you weren't good with the minigame, then you were boned. However, if your a mage, you have an alternative and if they added in lock bashing for warrior types, then we would have the trinity of lockpicking.

An alternative could be that instead of increasing the number of pins, just make it in real time so you have to worry about guards walking by or something else, so you can be interrupted so you can't take all the time in the world if your not so good at lockpicking. If your attacked while picking a lock, it breaks the lockpick because you were knocked off balance.

I can't. I have a hard time getting anything beyond an Average lock open until my Security skill is high enough to prevent some tumblers from falling when I break a pick. And even then, I'll probably break a good number of picks in the attempt.

Sorry to say it but you're probably doing it wrong lol. Just spam the up button until the pick goes up slowly, then press A when it is at the top. It follows a pattern so you know what happens next.

The Key could be fixed by making it usable once per day, like in Daggerfall.

Make it so you can't attempt to bypass a lock until you reach a certain skill level. Then there will probably be a minigame since Beth seems to want to include minigames. Just steer clear from Oblivion's lockpicking minigame since it was piss easy and my level 1 character could open the hardest of locks...because character skill wasn't important.

The Dragonborn comes across a locked door. Fumbling for his picks, he tries his best to open it. Behind the door stands an assassin, his dagger gleaming slightly with a thick coating of poison.

Breaking lockpick after lockpick because the Dragonborn isn't the most subtle and his hands are just too big and hairy, he gets frustrated with those stupid tumblers falling down all the time... :swear:

FUS RO DAH!

The door slams open, crushing the assassin against the wall with a meaty smack and the Dragonborn continues on with his epic journey. :dance:


Who needs lockpicks when you can just shout at it

I like this idea. Combined with what someone said about magic being a loud way to open doors and it would balance fairly well.



Maybe I am missing something, but to me you just described a broken situation and said no one has shown me a rational argument why this broken thing is broken. Not having to take it as a main skill and thanks to the minigame and still being able to breeze through every lock is sort of the definition of broken. What if it was the one handed skill you have it at 5 and people were saying the one handed skill thanks to a mini-game is broken I can kill dragons in one hit. Would you still say I see no problem with this. Your character is supposed to svck at this skill it should not be easy to accomplish, but thanks to the mini-game it is easy to accomplish for a lot of people. It breaks the game because your character stats are not accurately reflecting what he is doing in the game.

:lmao: . Would love to actually do that (with the assasin included).

No up key on the PC, gotta move the mouse around to make the thing go up. And no, I never noticed any pattern.... do a few tries of pushing it up to figure the timing for that tumbler, then do a "live" run, have bad timing on the click and have all the tumblers you had locked fall. And start over again. (And every once in awhile, when you've had a really bad run and broken over 15 picks on an Average lock, do a quickload and make it all go away. :unsure: )

I always had Security (Lock picking) as a major skill, until I found the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Skeleton_Key... then picking locks with skill lost its appeal.

It's no different on the PC. The trick is that the tumbler does a distinct, slightly different sound when it goes up slowly. All you gotta do is learn to wait for that sound and snap! That special sound appears to sound two-step compared to the one-step that the tumbler makes most of the time. With a little bit of practice and patience, you can use that trick to open a Very Hard lock on Novice Security with just one pick.

Never noticed. Guess my hearing isn't that good. (or my reflexes are that slow) :shrug:

hah. i always picked lock-picking because i could go get the skeleton key, then go to (i forget the name of this DLC) my underground ship and find that lock they never can be unlocked. I repeatedly hit "auto attempt" and level up quickly. same with alchemy. duplicate 2 ingredients and keep on hitting the "create potion" just to level up quickly from the start. something isnt right here.

morrowind, oblivion, or fallout lock-picking... which one do you like best?

Ehhh. I don't really see this as a good idea. Not in this kind of RPG. That's like saying, well my character also know how to aim and shoot a bow, so how come I have to manually aim it at the enemy? I think if you svck at the minigame, you should svck at the skill. But few people svck so long as its a simply minigame like whats in Oblivion or Fallout. I agree possibly making it more skill based and less input based may help, I don't want it entirely skill based. (Like a blatant percentage) I still want to be able to sway the chances manually.

I would like the to see more of the later part of your original post developed squeakers that lock picking opens has other uses. The frustrating thing with alteration having an unlock very hard spell is that it is equal in power with what the highest benefits of lock picking does for you. On top of that alteration has a quite a few other spells aside from lock picking. But with lock picking you only get that one ability.

Traps for instance would go along with the typically stealthy nature of lock picking. This would be great since assassins don't typically like going toe to toe. Set up a trap sneak up on a couple guys take one out with a nasty back stab get behind trap at watch it take the other guy out. Another may be basic smoke bombs, small time bombs, pinchers of power and slick shoes. Ok maybe not the last couple taken from Gonnies, but traps and gadgets would add a lot to game play and strategy with an assassin type class. And be other "powers" of lock picking so its because a more useful skill. Course it should be balanced.

I'd prefer a more fallout-esque minigame, and the larger the gap between your level and the requirement (negative difference), the smaller the sweetspot is on the lock, anyone can open it, but its very difficult when you have to be nearly perfect at low levels to find that little spot. Also make the lockpicks more resistant to strain at higher levels so, level 5 lockpicking on a level 99 lock means your probably going to break it very fast, level 50 gives you more work time and a higher chance of finding a usable point.