i generally like playing stealth characters and i really really really wanted to have lockpicking as one of my major skills. i know skyrim isnt using the same system so im not sure exactly how it all works but im assuming that the part about "as you use a skill it gets better" is still there.

in oblivion lockpicking was made useless by those stupid alteration spells. along with that you could open locks with the minigame with very little skill as well. they either need to remove "open lock" or at least limit it to regular locks and leave the difficult ones for just lockpicking. another thing they might do is add something else to lockpicking such as disarming traps or setting traps. this makes is a more useful skill to have instead of a throwaway. the game is centered around finding loot and lots of chests are locked so lockpicking should have some advantages.

what if you play a character that is bad at alteration? then you cant use open lock

I agree, I loved the lockpicking minigame in Oblivion. In Morrowind it was pretty Meh and I used an enchantment for it throughout, but with the minigame it actually turned interesting. Besides, I don't see the issue with keeping it as is. Sure, you can get the same result with magic, but by that logic there is little reason to keep bows when we have destruction.
Options are almost always good in RPGs.

Make it character skill based and not player skill based. Then there'll be a point to levelling it up.

im referring to the choice between alteration for opening locks or lockpick for opening locks. if you dont care about opening locks then you probably wouldnt pick either of them anyways unless you really like the burden and shield spells. when i build stealth characters i usually ended up with alteration just because it including lockpicking that was free. i didnt have to by lockpick ever and the spells always worked. the only downside was that you couldnt open the really hard locks early on till you got spells but it didnt take long to get them. even then you could just play the stupid lockpick minigame and open them with 50 skill.

@861201......except that archery has advantages over destruction spells. you cant be as stealthy with magic when you flinging fireballs around. the bow is much more discrete. also, some enemies are immune or heavily resistant to certain magic making it a poor choice to use.

Fallout 3's system was good, because you couldn't attempt to pick (and easily succeed) any lock at any skill level.

The only thing that needs to be improved is the way skill affects this. In FO3 there was no sense of advancement between a lockpicking skill of 25 and 49, or 50 and 74. It was only when you reached certain numbers like 25, 50 and 75 that you would be able to lockpick locks of a higher difficulty level.

IMO in Skyrim the lock levels should just vary between 1 and 100, not 25/50/75/100.

There should be an option for melee characters to bash locks in, like in KOTOR, except some of the items inside may be damaged, or if it's a door, it makes a loud sound to alert enemies.

Uh no you can be sure one of the spells in alterations will indeed be unlock. in elder scrolls mages are good at these sorts of things.

The problem so far is all security did was open locks.. with luck it also deals in setting traps too.

they probably combined security and sneak in Skyrim, at least that is my guess
I think they need to do it like fallout except have it so you can attempt any lock no matter what your level, but it will be a lot harder if you are at a lower level

Yeah I don' want any "You can't do that. You can't even try" stuff. My character is damn well going to make an effort even if it is far beyond his skill.
Some more complexity to the minigame would be appreciated with higher levels and perks giving new options to the way to solve the puzzle instead of diminishing the cost of failure.

The point of leveling it was to make it easier if you were bad at it.

...which I've always needed to do. (and/or get the skeleton key). I guess I'm just terrible at the lockpicking game, because I'm a couple days into a new character (at ~18-20 security skill), and I can break a dozen picks on an "Average" lock, when I'm "off".

That said, every character I've ever played has used Security. I don't believe I've ever cast an Alteration unlock spell.

Hmm.

In fact the game doesn't factor the player's skill into the minigame at all. Unless you use auto-attempt Security skill has zero effect on your chance of success.

I hope they will make lockpicking real-time (a la Thief) to create the feeling that you could be caught at any moment, and that they get rid of the tiered lock levels. You should be able to attempt any level lock at any skill level, but with lower skill it would take you longer and have a greater chance of breaking the pick.

That one.

Doesn't higher skill give you more leeway in timing the clicks for each pin? (Also, higher levels of security mean that less pins fall when you screw one up...... which I guess doesn't matter for the people who don't screw any up, heh.)

Kiralyn, from what I've seen the answer is no. Maybe I missed something - but it'd definitely benefit from more focus on character skill.

There are a lot of ways to fix lockpicking, such as make the minigame harder and different, or make it character skill based.
The answer is not to remove alteration spells because you used alteration instead of security...

When I make a stealth character, he has security. When I have a mage he has open spells. When I make a warrior i have difficulty, and end up buying scrolls (and I never found a reliable source)
So warriors should get an ability to bash it open, which could fail, damage the lock (making it forever locked), alert enemies, and damage items.

if bashing locks has a downside.........what exactly is supposed to be the downside of having alterations spells? there arent any downsides, making lockpicking completely useless to pick as a skill. might as well take that skill away as well. if alteration only went up to normal or hard locks and couldnt do very hard locks or if there were certain locks that couldnt be opened with a spell, that would make picking lockpick viable again. this is the same issue with healing/cure disease potions versus their magic equivalents. you get both sets of spells super early on rendering potions entirely useless for the rest of the game.....unless you have heavily mod the game like i did with super slow magicka regen.

I think the best way is to make both the player skill and security skill matter more. For example, you can only start opening hard locks at level 25 and you can only start opening very hard locks at level 50. Then at level 75 your character can muffle the sound of a lockpick breaking, and at 100 lockpicks don't break anymore. Everything else (how much leeway you have with your timing, the chance of keeping several pins up when you fail etc.) is improved for every single skill level.

Then, the lockpicking should be done in real time, so you have to hurry up sometimes to pick the lock in time before a guard shows up, and as indicated, a lockpick breaking would make a loud enough sound to wake a sleeping person up if you try to open the jewelry box on the nightstand at least.

The lockpicking minigame in oblivion really had the same fate as the speechcraft minigame. You can take all the time in the world, and it's not so bad if it goes wrong. This meant there was no challenge, and no reason to improve your security/speechcraft skill.

Well, first of all the "open" spells with alteration requires a lot of alteration skill. It takes journeyman level to open average locks after all. Of course if you powerleveled and had alteration as minor skill this isn't a problem, but that's not how most people play the game, and that issue won't be present in Skyrim. Secondly the alteration spells could be made loud. So it would be useful for opening loot in caves, or in basemants of people's houses, but not for house doors or anything in a room with an NPC present.

Question - do you only use the skills that you "pick"?

Just wondering, because...... yeah, I've never chosen Security as one of my seven Major skills. But I've used it on every single character that I've made. Even if I went the Alteration route, I still probably wouldn't pick Alteration as a Major skill - making a Mage character, I'd probably go with Resto, Destruction, and another casting skill, plus some others (since you want to pick a skill for every stat, for balance.... hmm. Looking at my skill sheet, I'd probably go with Block, Myst or Alch, Illusion, Light Armor, Blade, Destruct, & Resto for a mage-ish character.)

How to fix lockpicking?

A skillcheck. No minigame. Fair for everyone.

Lockpicking should be character skill dependent, not player dependent.
Open spell is fine for non-stealth magic types (just choose to use one or the other)
A lock bash option should be included, but be dependent on some skill or attribute, and have shortcomings like a percentage of attracting hostiles or chest owners, or a chance of breaking the contents.

It uses magika and creates light.

This.

i can never bring myself to pick security for a skill, even for stealth characters who it would be a natural fit for. i want to, but i cant. between oblivions crappy easy minigame and the fact that alteration let you do the same thing and also gives you access to a bunch of other spells and you never lose lockpicks..........why would anyone pick security. its just wasting a pick.

something has to be done cause its driving me nuts. i try to design my characters with a minimal amount of magic schools as majors because so much of TES magic is just game breaking. usually i pick alteration and then one other school like destruction or conjuration. many times i just pick alteration by itself. in the world of nirn there is no need for potions, no need for lockpicks cause spells do everything. spells are free, cost no money to cast, always succeed (the part i hate the most) and frankly have no downside. magic is just too OP in these games.

If TES magic is so game breaking, mod it out?
I hate it when a mod is always the answer, but if you so personally don't like it, personally get rid of it.