How Important Is The Science Skill In FNV?

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:29 pm

What I really hate is being locked out. Because of that I'm willing to max out both Lockpicking and Science. But in FO3 every door I encountered could be lockpicked even if it was linked to a computer.

I'm not interested in the extra dialouge options or hacking turrets and stuff, only in doors and safes :)

How important is Science in New Vegas? Will I miss anything good if i choose not to level it?
User avatar
Jarrett Willis
 
Posts: 3409
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:01 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:42 am

It's more important than it was in Fallout 3. There aren't all that many doors that can be opened with both lockpick and science. I went with Science myself and I found myself being locked out quite a bit, as more doors used lockpick. But if you must get into everything, you'll need to max both out.
User avatar
Ludivine Poussineau
 
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:49 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:38 pm

You would being missing out some crafting options, and quite a few option in quest.
User avatar
Elina
 
Posts: 3411
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:09 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:46 am

My first character maxed out Science but didn't raise lockpicking, my second did the opposite, and both times there were places I wasn't able to get in to.

There are also a number of dialogue options and other situations that benefit from a medium or high science skill although I don't believe I've ever encountered a situation where lock picking was used for more than picking locks. That's a shame, but hopefully there are some dialogue choices out there I just haven't encountered yet.
User avatar
Paula Rose
 
Posts: 3305
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:12 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:03 am

I don't spend many points on Science, usually bumping it to 30-35 and read a magazine (having Comprehension double the bonus) for those times when I want more Party Time Mentats. The Follower's Lab Coat adds 10 points - worth putting the time in to get it. I don't think I've encountered any situations that couldn't be handled with a Science 65 or less.

I'm not sure I'd call it "important" but it's certainly nice to have some knowledge of it.
User avatar
Kit Marsden
 
Posts: 3467
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:19 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:00 am

Its of use for some builds but far from vital. Same with lockpick there are very few cases where you realy need whats locked up.
User avatar
Natalie J Webster
 
Posts: 3488
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:35 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:12 am

I just went through a one intelligence character, had no points to spare for lockpick or science.
To be honest I did not miss anything, most containers that are locked rarely hold anything worth much or that is rare.
Most important locks have keys, and some terminals have pass words you can obtain.

The things you're going to miss is quest or dialogue related, but most are not exclusive to science.

The game is not like FO3 where every area is full of great weapons and armour, those that do have something often it is laying out in the open.
Most areas don't need to be bypassed, and those where it's an option tend to draw only short routes.
User avatar
krystal sowten
 
Posts: 3367
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:25 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:52 am

It's not crucial, but if you're like me and every unhacked terminal is a dagger in the heart then you might as well raise it. Probably don't need to go higher than 70 what with skill mags and the Follower's Lab Coat though.
User avatar
Kate Schofield
 
Posts: 3556
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:58 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:34 am

Depends on your role play, but Lock-pick ends up being more useful.
User avatar
carly mcdonough
 
Posts: 3402
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:23 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:12 am

I tend to raise both Science and Lockpick, but then I absolutely cannot stand being unable to get through a door or into a sealed container even though I know that the loot therein is likely to be disproportionate to the amount of skill needed to reach it.

The fact that any important locked object either needs a key or is opened via a script command does not help, since that invalidates the skills to a goodly extent. That said, there are some useful dialogue options if one has a really high Science skill, as well as the ability to occasionally bypass what would otherwise be a relatively difficult task during a quest.
User avatar
Irmacuba
 
Posts: 3531
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:54 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:39 am

I liked Science as a great all-around RPG skill, Lockpick is more of the shoot-through-problems skill. You get to more areas with high lockpick than high science, but...

Lockpick:
Opens safes, doors, misc containers.

Science:
1. Determines recycle energy ammo rates
2. Opens NPC dialogue options and alternate quest branches/resolutions.
3. Allows crafting improved chems at campfires (so much more useful than survival it's absurd, I live on Slasher and Party-Time-Mentats.)
4. Allows Over-and-Max-Charge EEC/SEC/MFC loads. That might be useful when the game is tweaked for more energy damage and ammo, right now it's useless.
5. Opens some safes/doors.
6. Hacks terminals.

You only really need 40-50 science to pass almost every dialogue and quest-check in the game, but hacking the harder terminals to shut down or take over turrets/sentrybots or shortcut quests that use a terminal in them is usually an 80-100 skill check. Note also that there is a +10 science follower lab coat to be easily picked up in FNV, unlike the Vault apparel that does +lockpick, which is only +5.

I'd say 50 science (base, using books and clothes to supplement) will get you past 90% of the game content that relies on that skill. You'll get more gear with 50+ lockpick than 50 science. I think 40 science and 60 lockpick (with the appropriate clothing and books) will open everything in the game besides a few 100 lockpick/terminal doors, which don't have anything you really need behind them anyway.
User avatar
Katie Louise Ingram
 
Posts: 3437
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:10 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:51 am

Science isn't as Important in New Vegas as it was in Fallout 3. I'd still get Science up to 50 but no higher as Lockpick is more important.
User avatar
Rusty Billiot
 
Posts: 3431
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:22 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:39 am

Science isn't as Important in New Vegas as it was in Fallout 3. I'd still get Science up to 50 but no higher as Lockpick is more important.


I'd have to disagree there. Science would have to be the more useful skill it seems. Not just opening doors but the amount of speech checks I saw for science were quite jarring.
User avatar
^~LIL B0NE5~^
 
Posts: 3449
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:38 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:38 am

I liked Science as a great all-around RPG skill, Lockpick is more of the shoot-through-problems skill. You get to more areas with high lockpick than high science, but...


Yes, this. Deadsanta gives the most comprehensive overview here.

In short: Lockpick is more essential for making sure you get into locked containers and through locked doors. Science has a variety of other uses that may be helpful to you, but I'm inferring from other comments that there's maybe one or two containers/rooms in the entire game that require Science 75-100 to get into, with no other way to get into at all. (I never found any at all, personally. Found a couple where hacking was a shortcut, but not required.)
User avatar
JAY
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:17 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:01 pm

I've never had science above 50 and I haven't felt like I was seriously "missing" anything. If you're a completist, sure, take it....or do a 2nd character with it. But really important? Nah. I prefer lockpick, because I hate not being able to see what's in a container (even if it turns out to be empty!) but mostly because I'd rather do that than guess/puzzle out passwords. I can't stand the hacking mini-game. :)

If you have a relatively high INT chr with largely a 1-skill combat focus, you're going to have so many skill points you can get both up pretty high anyway, without completely sacrificing too much else, if you want. Key here is "IF you want."
User avatar
Kira! :)))
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:07 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:03 am

I also found having high Science to be kind of tough to RP around. I took it because I saw my character as the kind of courier who will make a pickup or delivery no matter what the obstacles, and who prefers problem-solving over fighting. Turns out, though, that there aren't that many containers or doors that require Science to hack through, and there are a LOT fewer hackable turrets than in FO3.

Meanwhile, I'm getting these quest dialog options that have me giving scientific advice to experts in super-esoteric fields. If you don't conceive of the character from the outset as a self-taught genius, it feels a little immersion-breaking to be thinking of your character as a mercenary mailman giving advice on rocket science or neurosurgery.
User avatar
Rachel Eloise Getoutofmyface
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:20 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:17 am

If I were you, I'd invest at least a standard ammount of skill pts. into Science, there are a multitude of reasons why you would want it, one of which
Spoiler
is that you can get into the Strip for free with Science at 80 or more.

And if you're crazy for chems, definately. Lockpick I would reccomend at least keeping it at average or more.
User avatar
latrina
 
Posts: 3440
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:31 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:57 am

You can also get into the Strip for free by taking the monorail. Works every time. Well, unless you're doing a Legion character I assume. But otherwise...I've never paid a dime to get into The Strip. Once I go through there and am greeted by Victor, even the entrance into the Strip from Freeside is free.

Maybe I'm wrong tho & there are some other reasons that route won't work...(besides that one quest that bork up the monorail).
User avatar
Andrew Tarango
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:07 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:36 am

Obsidian did a great job of making every skill useful in some way, way more than FO3. So yeah, Science is important. How important depends on how you play - again, great design.

But I would say Lockpicking is more important of the two if you're deciding where to put your points. Especially early in the game when you're trying to acquire caps and every bit helps. So I would boost Lockpicking to at least 25 before putting any points into Science. Lockpicking to 50 would be even better, but that's debatable and again depends on how you play. In my two playthroughs I've found Science to be more useful a little bit later in the game. You don't tend to get into dialogs that require it until a bit later, same for quest actions. One strategy would be to put points into Lockpicking and then take Science as a Tag skill when that perk becomes available. If you stumble early onto a quest that requires Science you can always come back to it when your Science improves but it's a lot more difficult to go back to the various safes you had to skip because your lockpicking wasn't high enough.

The other thing to consider is clothing, skill books, and skill magazines. The Followers Lab Coat gives you a boost of +10 to Science while the only piece of clothing that gives a boost to Lockpicking is a Vault jumpsuit that only boosts it +5. And of the two the Lab Coat is the easier to obtain at a low level. There are 5 Science skill books and only 4 Lockpicking skill books, and most of those are pretty hard to get for a low level character. I've found the Lockpicking skill magazines to be MUCH rarer than Science skill magazines, so it's much easier to boost Science when you need it than to boost Lockpicking.
User avatar
Sophie Miller
 
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:35 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:29 pm

I thought it was pretty important, and speech is almost a must-have.
User avatar
Irmacuba
 
Posts: 3531
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:54 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:29 am

Definitely do not max out Science or Lockpick.

If you get comprehension, after finding all five Big Book of Science you get permanent +20 science. After finding all 5 science books, your science should be NO HIGHER than 76. (Keep in mind there are only four Tumblers Today books, so only +16 permanent bonus if you find them all.)

Any time you run into a very hard lock or computer terminal you can take mentats (+4 science & +4 lockpick because it boosts INT +2 and PER +2) and Tumbler's Today (+20 lockpick) or Programmer's Digest (+20 science).

That will temporarily bring you up from 76 to 100 to hack any very hard computer terminal or pick any very hard lock. Trust me, there are plenty of Mentats and plenty of skill magazines in this game, more than enough to pass every tough lock or computer terminal. And it's also possible to craft Party Mentats at the campfire.

EDIT: only reason to go above 76 science is if you want to get the Nuka Chemist perk which requires 90 science. There is no perk with Lockpick requirement above 70.
User avatar
rheanna bruining
 
Posts: 3415
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:00 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:30 am

more important than most of the other skills, it ur intel is high just max it.
User avatar
Russell Davies
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:01 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:45 am

Uh you ALWAYS get into the strip for free they dont take your 2000 caps they just insist you have 2000 on you.
User avatar
Jesus Sanchez
 
Posts: 3455
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:15 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:49 pm

LOL really? I got mad when they asked for 2000 caps and killed all the securitrons.
User avatar
Rex Help
 
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:52 pm

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:15 am

In your case I would say, not really, cannot remember a time where I felt I needed it, but could be overlooking something.

I did find invaluable on my energy weapons build.

That being said, if you are going to use everything it offers, it is pretty worth while. Lock pick will get you more open doors and containers, its a more focused skill. Science is multi-functioning though, effects perk selection, conversations, energy ammo, terminals and crafting. If you won't be using most of these, will pale compared to other skills. I did max it, books I use for decorations, mags are for when using the restroom, and I am a scientist in power armor or a lab coat, personal preference though.

As for getting into the strip, it does say check, not a fee. Due to how many games work, I can understand that confusion.
User avatar
Gemma Flanagan
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:34 pm

Next

Return to Fallout: New Vegas