It seems OP has gone but still...

I am not hardcoe gamer but I have Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 and love them.

Lets think that games are light spots in darkness. Fallout 1 and 2 are like candle lights in darkness while Fallout 3 is huge spotlight near pointing to empty void. Of course more people will notice bright light, go near it but most of them will proceed to next one. Those who were already at candles still stay with them because of the feeling. If someone looks at these lights from distance, which one they will remember? Depends have they really been there or not.

I think Fallout 3 will be remembered, not as a great salvation of RPG but good game while old ones will be remembered from their sacred ?berness that cannot be touched without becoming badly burned by flaming words.

The word definitive would imply "the game which defined the series" right? In that case the answer to the title of this thread is: "Never. That is impossible." Fallout 1 always has and always will be the definitive game of the series since it CREATED what the series was and would be. The End.

Hahaha you talkin' about No Mutants Allowed? Total agreement. More like No Non-Nerds Allowed.

Anyway, I'm a guy who has a huge attachment to the original Fallouts. My grandma bought them for me right when they came out, for the holidays. Now she's gone, so you can imagine how I feel about something that has to do with her in even the most peripheral way. But you know what? Fallout 3 looks like a blast, and even if they dumbed it down or whatever, I will play the hell out of it.

Look, Fallout 1 & 2 exist. Fallout 3's perceived "lack of quality" or whatever rubbish you super-nerds who get upset when something they cherish becomes even remotely mainstream believe (look at all the griping about comics now that people who actually have six are buying them again) does not change that fact. Hate Fallout 3? Play Fallout 1 & 2 again and shut up. Your whining does nothing but make people perceive people who like the first games as grumpy old dorks. You think saying "your game svcks and mine rules!!!" will make fans of F3 suddenly go "lol u r right?" no history has shown that time and time again, insulting something a younger generation enjoys will only drive them towards it even more.

kjaye77, I get what you're trying to do with this thread, and I am in total agreement with you. The curmudgeonly cranks and haters who are trying to convince you that it's wrong to enjoy something they don't like need to shut up. As an old school Fallout fan, I beg you and anybody else who is exhausted with all the pedantic whining and even threats ABOUT A VIDEO GAME SERIES not to think we're all like that.

Fallout 1 was the first RPG i enjoyed playing. I allways keep 1 and 2 installed and cant even began to tell you how many times I have played through them both. I am enjoying Fallout 3 but the original game to me is the definitive title.

How many times will fallout 3 be played by the average player... maybe 3...

Ive played fallout 2, 12 times...
And after finnishing Fallout 3 and being disappointed with the ending... I installed Fallout 2.

You say that Fallout 3 is the "standard of fallout" yet, when a SEQUAL is made to a game that has less game options than a game made 10 years previous, you wonder whether it really should be...

Not to mention Fallout 1 and 2 where actually a challenge...
On Very Hard I beat that game and died 3 times... 1 of them I FELL...
The last boss DIDNT EVEN SHOOT ME ONCE...

Fallout 1 and 2 where good games designed well...
Made by gamers, For gamers...

Some of the quests in Fallout 3 feel asthough they are just there to "pad out" the game, and to say there are only very few quests...
Thats a very sad thing.

This is gonna be a long post .

Uses fallout as a way to hate others around the world o_O? Well that's a new one to me but uh... you know I'm not too surprised.

For one I did not compare myself nor do I believe myself to represent anything, ESPECIALLY not WW2 veterans. It was a comparison between the situation, NOT the people involved in the situation. I have no entitlement to the fallout series, it is not mine and I never made that claim. However before getting to that keep in mind that your idea of "entitlement" can be applied to ANY subject of conversation. You don't have the right to your favorite baseball team, doesn't mean you won't get pissy when people insult it and/or you just for the sake of being insulting and taking a side. Granted that may have more to do with the team representing something more but I think the point still remains.

The only person who has the rights to fallout is indeed the people who own the rights and to be frank, that's not the point. It's likely nothing I say is gonna change anything and again, it's likely the people in charge won't even glance over this. However i believe I DO have the right to voice my opinion and in this particular case I have, in a sarcastic manner. Perhaps even slightly insulting, but I don't think I went into flatout flaming. One of bigger reasons why I'm getting a bit irritated as to the whole "intellectual property" subject and people insulting old fans is because everyone seems to be cutting and pasting things from EVERY game and deciding what they will and won't include simply for convenience. Fallout 2 had some instances where it implied one thing, but was cut because the developers decided it was inconvenient. Same thing can be said for fallout 1. They just pick and choose and in fact there really IS no specific fallout lore, they turn it into whatever fits their circumstances best. So yeah, destruction of intellectual property I suppose isn't important.

In general don't treat fans with hostility, not until they themselves start making hostile claims. If the person whose post I responded to had made his argument a bit less sarcastically than hey, I woulda responded with a bit less irritation. But he didnt -_-. Hell look at most of my other posts, for the most part (actually I can't think of any that ended up quite as hostile as this one) they're pretty reasonable.





I dont tell people they shouldn't enjoy the game, I enjoyed the game myself, but I still defend the original games when people say that this new one is the big daddy of fallout and in fact under the circumstances, you're the one who's saying "you're game svcks and mine rules!!" especially since you're entire post is riddled with insults and generalizations.

edit: BTW i was going to ask what lightbulbsun was talking about when he mentioned threats about the series but I'm assuming thats the using fallout to hate people thing you were mentioning?

I played the origional Fallout 1 and 2 when they came out (and avoided the weirdoes coming after) and I must say the OP does have a point. The defacto standard that this generation will remember will be Fallout 3. Sure maybe a few will try FO1/2, but it will be a few compared to the millions who play FO3.

So, are there a few mishaps and inconsistencies between the 3 games? Sure...but I think they still pulled it off very well and after having removed the level cap I've been able to enjoy the game immensely.

But again, each generation identifies first by what title they first "got the magic" from. Dr Who fans who started with Tom Baker, will generally identify the scarfed Dr Who as the main Dr Who and not William Hartnell.

As a sidenote, I actually enjoyed Arena, Daggerfall and Oblivion way more than Morrowind. I still have Daggerfall and Arena as originals

I wasn't really talking to you, I was talking to nutty No Mutants Allowed types who truly believe that again, A VIDEO GAME they don't like is some kind of crime. I think Fallout 1, 2 & 3 are all good games. To be fair I get annoyed with anyone who identifies with a type of entertainment to the point that it becomes an aspect of their personality and they feel compelled to defend it, loudly. That just causes people to think anybody who is a fan of that thing is weird.

As for threats, I've read a few overblown nerdy internet posts threatening to hurt people who enjoyed Fallout 3 and thought it was better than the first two. I'm sure it was nothing but hyperbole, though.

I think you are mistaking the intent of my post by focusing on the numerical aspects. The fact that more people saw Manhunt than played the first two games is irrelevant - the point is if you ask someone what the first movie in the "Silence of the Lambs" series was, they will say "Silence of the Lambs." Very few people will say Manhunt - I think you grossly overestimate how popular that movie was.

Your arguement about the recognition of phrases from Star Trek acctually supports my point well - the point I was trying to make is that PC games were not a niche market 10 years ago like you seem to think that they are. Before Fallout 3 was annouced if you had mentioned the name Fallout to most gamers they would at least have recognized the name of the game. i know that many of my friends had without ever acctually playing it. You underestimate how popular the games were - they were a bit more widespread than you think in my experience. Again, numbers are not the issue here - asking someone on the street who has never played a video game in their life about Fallout would likely have netted you the same response 10 years ago as it would now - "What is that?" But asking someone who had played even a few PC games, who had a PC that could run current games from 10 years ago (i.e. the target audience for the gamers) what fallout was would probably at least get you the response "It's an RPG."

You overestimate the popularity of the game and the effectiveness of the advertising. People don't remember every single thing they see advertised - they remember the memorable advertisemants and the things that really make an impact. Fallout 3 has not done that. It's sold well, but it's certainly not on everyone's minds. Most of my friends now are casual gamers - they haven't played Fallout 3 and have barely heard of it outside of TV commercials. If I asked them what kind of game it was, they wouldn't know.

If you want to define definitiveness as "being well known by the general population, even non gamers" the games that fall into that category are Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty, Madden.. the REAL big names. Fallout 3 has sold alot, but it doesn't touch the numbers of games like that and hasn't impacted the population like that. 5 years from now people will remember the Halo series even if no new games are made - it had a huge impact on gaming in general. In 5 years if Fallout 4 hasn't been released no one will remember the game. Fallout 3 is nowhere near as well known as you think it is. Kids aren't asking for Fallout 3 for christmas - They are asking for GoW 2 and the new Call of Duty. Fallout 3 has done well, but it is by no means one of the blockbuster games of the season. Definitiveness is not defined by simple name recognition or by numbers - it's defined by what defined something, no more and no less. If you ask someone what the "definitive" Super Mario game is, they will likely answer "Super Mario 1" or "Super Mario 3", even though the newer Mario games have likely far surpassed the old in sales. When you think "Mario" you think of a side scrolling platformer starring a plumber, not a three dimensional psychedelic adventure (as fun as that may be.)

Part of this again goes back to name recognition. If you ask someone who has never really played the series what the first game in the Fallout series was they will say Fallout 1 because it's logical. Not necessarily because it is more memorable, but because when something has a "3" after it, it most likely had a "1 and 2" first.

This is why the comparison to Star Trek is apt. Tthe original series was produced long before the newer, more popular series. Phrases like "Beam Me Up Scotty" have entered the common lexicon - but if you polled the general population, the vast majority of them who have seen an episode of Star Trek have seen an episode from the 80 - 90 - 00 time period, not the late 60's time period. And this is exactly my point - even though the newer shows are far more watched, even though FAR more people have seen Star Trek: The Next Generation than will ever see Star Trek: The Original Series, the older ones are what defined the series. When you think Star Trek, you think Captain Kirk, not Captain Picard, even if you have never seen a T.V. show starring William Shatner.

This is why I think you overestimate how definitive Fallout 3 will be. 5 years down the road when you think Fallout, you will get a mixed reaction. Some people will think Fallout 3 because that is all they played. But some people will think Fallout 1 for a variety of reasons. Like I said in my first post, the point of "definitiveness" is for an overwhelming majority to immediately think of a particular thing when you say a particular word. I don't think that will EVER happen with Fallout - there will always be a split.

Thanks for being civil and sorry it took me so long! This is acctually a very interesting discussing aside from all the flaming and fighting.

Only played the FO3, its good indeed, but once i hit the end i, somewhat "missed" something.. i dont know if the lack of content of bad plots. Its a good game, but indeed a mainstream one. I still believe that FO1 is the game that dictated all FO, just because it is really the ground breaker and source of all lore.

When i started to play, i didnt know much about fo lore. Now that im aware of it, the game seen less interesting.

This was the same with Oblivion. Iam very hard fan of Morrowind. We lose a lot for the mainstream Oblivion, its a good game, but all the real stories, good and deep were on Morrowind and daggerfall. The game was tunned for the mainstream, and unfortunally this was the way to made it "works", in financial terms. So this is where modders come in. Oblivion became a more and more nice game with the effort of modders. I hope that FO3 will benefit from the same.

Fallout 3 and the old Fallouts are two different games, the only things that seem to be the same is the lore, pretty much everything has been redone, the skills are also the same. A few weapons as well.

I felt Bethesda translated Fallout into the 3d realm beautifully. It looks and feels Fallout to me, but could use more of a grungey atmosphere; Fallout 3 in that aspect feels a bit dry.

I'm currently playing through Fallout 2 and the game just has a gritty feel to it, as if I have to clean the grime out from my fingernails after playing. Fallout 2 feels significantly more unforgiving and definitely does not hold your hand like FO3. I look to mods to "fix" this, and many of the recent releases are doing a great job so far.

Gameplay wise, I think FO3 is the natural evolution of the series. VATS remains faithful to the original series, while the rest of the gameplay reminds the player that this game is an RPG first. I'm not a huge fan of the original combat system in FO1/2. For one, it's just slow and there's so little actually going on, it just leaves something to be desired. If Bethesda had chosen to stay true to the turn-based formula, I would have liked to see it developed more like KoTOR's combat system; it's a very good marriage of real-time and turn-based combat, but not perfect.

Maybe my perspective is different because I was not a Fallout fan prior to FO3, but going back and playing FO1/2 now, I feel FO3 is undeniably at home in the franchise.

The point is that people in the world are becoming more stupid all the time and more tolerant to any mainstream crap which is feeded to them. It's sad that people don't have interest anymore to things like music etc. and they don't respect it and in which those things are based on. So in that regard many 13-year olders will think Fallout 3 is THE definitive Fallout game but it doesn't tell anything about the games itself. Fallout 3 will never gain such classic status as Fallout or Fallout 2. That's simply because while it is a very nice game indeed, it isn't different or original enough, or even good enough. A bit wasted opportunity because it could have been so much more than just a watered-down version for people who really don't give too much of a damn about anything, or from nowadays game developers who only think about money.

Many say that Fallout 3 added to the series but I think it has only taken too many things away which made Fallout Fallout and added much stuff which many "serious" fallouters could easily live without and switch to original feel and variety. Those 13-year olds can't notice the difference because they haven't played older games. While a good game on its own, this new one just hasn't got that something needed to be THE Fallout.

Blanket statements are always dumb

I dont have 13 years old, and i think the game is very well done and is very good. All people i see ranting because "its not the way I WANT IT" are the old people on "no non-nerds allowed" that just cry because the game isnt isometric and isnt turn based, which is really ridiculous.

I wasnt believing how much people there were hate people, so i checked. In one thread, a guy states "just calm down is just entertainment" and a nerd replies "Man what are u saying? It is FALLOUT it is not entertainment" ... just to see the level where those ranters are going. For a lot of people that defend their positions and desires with much passion and hate, the game isnt simply to play, its something like a religion, or a "happy place" where one can escape from an cruel reality into a world this one is the king.

I for one, would've loved to see the isometric view coming back. If you played Fallout 1 and 2.. you'd know why. What I enjoyed most was the tactical aspect using turn-based strategy. And nothing is more convinient than isometric view. Though, for example GTA3 started introducing classic top view ability too.. so it would be nice if someone could make a mod where it's automatically 3d isometric. Wait.. we also need someone to mod a turn based mod then. Uhm.. well just forget what I said.

It might appeal to some, but i guess a lot of people just hate isometric, and it is cleary out of what is the default this days.

I always hated games like FF or any other like Chorno trigger with little parties fighting into turn based. So boring, even if you dont want to fight (Like, i will try to escape and run) you end in that endless turn dice based fighting system.

Which of the Fallout games has sold the best? Fallout 3. Plain and simple, if it sells better it is better.

This is just bad logic. Cocaine sell a lot and its not good anyway.

Doom 3 didn't take away Doom 1 and 2's fire, so I don't see how Fallout 3 is going to do that with the Fallout series. As much as I like Fallout 3, which I think is pretty cool, there's more to the big picture than Fallout 3 and I haven't played the first two.... not yet anyhow. The only way a game can possibly become the definite game is a series, is if the previous ones were bad, which just isn't the case here.... or the previous games were on some ancient system that is no longer used and all that remains is fireside tales of what they were like.... haha. Maybe it would be safer to say the Fallout series is the definite post-apocalyptic RPG series.....

I really hope you're joking. If not, I can't even begin to figure out how your mind works. It's just...I can't put into words what I'm thinking right now, but this is by far the dumbest things I've heard this week.

By your logic the new music album brought out by the pvssycat Dolls is better than, I don't know, Revolver by the Beatles, because it sells more.

I'll leave it at that, I just don't know what to say to someone commenting like this.

So the Sims: New Hat expansion must therefore be the second best game ever (Second only to the Sims of course).

Geez, it was just joke, I should have put j/k or something but don't kill me.

My two cents: like it or not, Fallout will not be like the original games ever again. Several attempts have been made to add to the series. Each time, they did not make a sequel for different reasons... Fallout 3 is different. Lets face it, Bethesda's Fallout 3 is not a one-shot game and it is FAR from the end of Bethesda's works for the series.
On another side of the series continuation, Interplay is doing a Fallout MMO. How this game will play I do not know, but one thing is certain: It isn't going to be like Fallout 1 or 2. Not exactly.

So that's it then. Past Fallout 1 and 2, I do not think there will be another turned based game. Not for a while. Not by Bethesda OR Interplay. Cheers~

I don't think I've ever enjoyed a game by Interplay, and quite frankly, I doubt I'll enjoy their MMO.