I really wasn't going to register. My plan was just to ghost through here, lurking and reading. Couldn't help myself. This question made me register.

The answer is really pretty easy. There isn't a definitive Fallout game because there isn't a definitive Fallout fan. It will be great fun arguing about it, though.

Let me begin by utterly failing to impress you with my Fallout pedigree. I wasn't yet a teenager when I discovered Wasteland. That game, along with F1, F2, and F:T is still on my hard drive. I've walked the wasteland playing the same character for twenty years now. For me, the definitive Fallout game started with Wasteland - even though when I boot up today I am playing F3 instead of Wasteland. It is hard to capture the feeling of discovery that playing that game gave me.

And you can't go back. Even though I'll still play all of those games, it isn't quite the same. Nostalgia is a powerful force that defies all reality. Ask your grandmother why music, politics, education, and general life svcks more now than it did in the Great Depression and you'll get an idea of what you're dealing with.

I think that F3 is a spiritual descendant to be proud of. (Kind of the same way that BOS was not.) The post-apocalyptic genre was just about dead for a long, long time. I intentionally purchased crap games that fell into that genre just in the hopes that someone, somewhere would see it make enough money to publish another game instead of Ultimate Madden Football XXVIII. The greatest gift that F3 will give us - whether you love it as a work of Fallout genius or hate it as eye-candy tripe - is that it showed that there is still a market for this kind of game. The better F3 does, the less likely we'll have to wait another decade for F4.

Personally, I love this game. It is less campy than F2, and campy was fun . . . but the first person POV makes for a more immersive experience. I never felt the adrenaline thrill from just peeking around the corner in any of the precursor games. In the past games, I've never been crouched down while two raiders loomed over me - low on life and down to 2 shotgun shells - only to pull out of it with two head-shot criticals through VATS. Yes, the characters could use a little more development, the dialogue could be polished some, the skill/stat system was overly simplified, and god help me but they should've made the radio stations where you can load in your own tunes. . . but overall, this game is what I hoped it would be and nothing at all what I was afraid it would turn into. It isn't perfect, but by god the mods will come and that is something that none of the other games had. There is a chance for the community to turn this into their own definitive Fallout experience and I get to cherry-pick the best among them.

My favorite part of every Fallout game was being down to my last handful of bullets, no stims, and praying that Dogmeat won't die. F3 has given me that - even if it didn't last past 10th level.

Definitive? No - unless this is your first journey into the wasteland. If so, then welcome to the madness and I'm sorry because it'll never be as good as this no matter how great the next one is.

The orignals of any series are almost always the best or atleast what people think of as the defintive game of that series. Not always true, but imo its the general rule of things.
But that doesnt really matter as Fallout 3 is a great game in its own right, and just because there are Fallout fans who want the game modded into what they would like to see doesnt mean that its a bad game. It just means there are people who would like some changes to the gameplay etc. You dont have to agree with them and thats fine.

Also please try to reframe from being so rude in the future as you wont get anything from bashing all fans and saying that all fans are the same type of garbage. You might think were just mindless trolling ferals, but we do have feelings too you know. Its hard to have a civilised discussion with someone who starts off calling all fans idiots.

Also just because Fallout 3 is going sell more coppies then Fallout 1 and 2, doesnt mean its going to be called the difinitive Fallout game, popularity isnt enough to get you that title.

I agree with both Salival and Kinten.

Never. Fallout 1 and 2 were 3/4 overhead perspective, turn based RPG's like Baldur's Gate, X-Com, Neverwinter Nights, etc. Fallout 1 and 2 were outragous over the top sarcasm and controversial. They were GTA before GTA was.

Fallout 3 is Ok, but is much like every other first person RPG out there. Nothing new here at all. In fact it really is nothing more then a modded Oblivion. The fact that its a post apocalyptic word attracts a lot of gamers who are sick of the whole fantasy genra, but in truth Oblivion is a much better product.

Fallout and GTA came out in the same year.

While this in a very good game I feel I don't think anyone is going to remember fallout 3 at all it's just.. not as much new somewhat marketed feeling.. but the cult following fallout 1 and 2 have keep is going.

So in ten years the only people who remember fallout will be the ones who think of one and two.. unless beth keeps the sequels coming the whole time... then people will associate it with whatever the newest one is and fallout 1&2 like it is with three.. and thats assuming beth is still around then. A lot happens with a game development company in ten years.

Ball Park figure, um...about 30 or 40 years.

You're smoking pot if you genuinely believe that, Fallout 3 has sold close to 5 million copies and got a meta score of 9+ out of ten. It really is a highly memorable game and will be remembered as bein the next step in modern rpgs, the ball is officially back in Bioware/Boston 2k's court.

Interesting theory. Of course, the definitive Fallout will always be the first one. The only way this could not be true would be via the ignorance of history of a next generation. The Hannibal Lector anology is a good one except for one problem: Manhunter was not a tremendously popular legend of a movie.

And Hannibal also isn't titled Manhunter 3.

And in this market it's not unusual a game sells a whole lot of copies and then isn't talked about later until the sequel comes out for further hyping.

I'm not saying it's a bad game I like this game it's just that fallout 3 didn't do anything new. It did some stuff that was already done in fallout 1 and 2 because it's the sequal and they used the world and some stuff they already did in the TES games and they watered the system a bit to make it more newbie friendly. It's not breaking into any new ground because it doesn't do anything that hasn't been done a few times.

Fallout 1 and 2 came out close enough together to pretty much feel like a pair they were gritty and realistic while still having a sense of humor.

With fallout 1 and 2 you could say it was an RPG not unlike some of the ultima stuff and some of the goldbox darksun stuff but it wasn't in the same dead horse of a medieval setting that they used. It was an RPG without magic. It could be compared a lot to wasteland. but it had the sense of humor and polished systems wasteland lacked. Overall it felt like a brand new level for the whole thing especially since wasteland is the only example anyone can think of for post apocalypse RPG meaning barely anyone touched the area and no one was making anything for it on a decent budget to polish and finish it.

it's a sad day when it is. Fallout 3 is a fun game. Take Fallout and put it in a 3-d engine while taking everything else and watering it down. I like the game...but it is a step back in SO MANY ways from fallouts 1 and 2 that it's depressing.

a move forward? in some aspects I guess....but not in a lot of the ones that made fallout so appealing. the SPECIAL system in this is a bastardization....VATS? well, I'm already tired of watching the same ol' slow-mo dismemberments...I mean the "gory" deaths that the little 2d sprites in FO 1, 2, n tactics have are strangely better.

ok so fallout 2's being porm star, boxing champ, were a little pointless other then for flavor for your character...some missions you could solve without fighting..can you say that about 3? I mean there's nothing like this in 3..no real extra flavor..it's "mmmm me vault escapee, have big gun, you out in wild, me keel you, take stuff, rargh"....and that's it.

Anyway, Fallout 3 is by far NOT a bad game, and yes it's even great in a lot of aspects...but it does NOT..and NEVER WILL do Fallout justice and the day it becomes "THE definitive Fallout game" is the day I cry a tear for the drones.

Yes there is. Just about all of the side missions have 2 to 3 ways of solving them. One way generally requires no violence. I think the game itself stays true to the Fallout franchise and really nailed the atmosphere while at the same time modernizing it to todays standards. The game is huge with alot of depth in it. Lots of folks don't like that the game ends but if memory serves me the other fallout games had an ending as well so that is not a big deal. I loved the original Fallout games but I think FO3 is overall a better game and a whole lot funner. It may have something to do with the eye candy and the vast amounts of exploration idk, but the game is truely fun and keeps me wanting to come back for more. No game has done this since the originals.

I don't know if it has already been posted, as I couldn't stand to read past page 2. But Fallout 1/2 will always to me be Fallout. I enjoy fallout 3 but I don't consider it to be "Fallout".

Now as to your question how long till it becomes the definitive Fallout? Now? Sure lets say now, but it wont be for long as soon as Interplay releases the Fallout MMORPG.(If they do it right, knowing Harvey or Harley or whatever his dumb ass name is, giving he still runs the company, they won't) I think Fallout 3 will be popular, but I think, and hope people go back and play Fallout 1/2.

After beating it.... I came to a conclusion that this game looks cool, but it svcks.... i think the graphics is the only reason why i liked it. I'm disappointed with this game, I hope fallout 4 is better, I hope just hope that bethesda hears us. People that never played fallout 1 & 2 find a way to play it then you could compare the games.... then you'll know why i'm disappointed.... Good graphics, thats all what this game has. It looks cool but Bethesda missed alot of things, I do like how they added a couple of things like making your guns and the fatman, but i never used that gun cause i was scared that it would damage me as well. The only highlight of this game was going in the DC ruins and blowing up a town, I'm selling my game and i just hope Fallout 4 is better.... Its sad cause when i heard they were making a fallout 3 I was excited, but now you have an excited person hating the game...I like fallout, i think the story was cool and everything. I think bethesda should play fallout 1 and 2 so they know how to make fallout....Fallout 3 will never be fallout, i'm sorry if you think that because fallout 1 & 2 was a great game that now people will never know....

There are a number of quests you can complete without violence if you have high speech which i do in my first character.

If the OP didn't include all the unnecessary whining and attempts at bashing it might have been a good post. It certainly has a point. When people think GTA these days it's the 3d game rather than the 2d progenitors. The greater success will associate the name with the 3d Oblivion mod in the same way that volkswagon make hippie vehicles and cute beetles rather than Nazi cars.

it's no bad thing imo. The legacy of fallout seems to have made Beth raise their game from the dull and bland Oblivion so hopefully they'll keep up this standard and we'll get better games as a result. if people still associated it with Interplay (the couple of hundred thousand that knew they existed) waht would we get out of it? It may not be the legacy we want for the Fallout games but i think it benefits us.

Wait, what? Wasteland lacked humor? Hobodogs! Toaster repair! Angela Death and Hell Razor! Taking down gangs of feral kids in Highpool long before the neckbeards here began crying about invincible F3 children! Harry the Bunny Master? Come on. . . that stuff was great.

You're missing the point, it seems, of what made Fallout 1 so great. It was the first of it's kind. Even with all the time that's passed, we've only ever seen 4-5 titles that were on par with the immersion, depth and genius of that very first foray into what RPGs should be like.

So what if the budget for the first few games was a fraction of #3? They were isometric - much cheaper to create than 3D, I for one quite like isometric: 3D has only just now caught up to the realism and detail of isometric graphics.

I don't think that Fallout 3 will be considered the definitive Fallout game, it can't be, because it's a sequel - the only change from previous versions is the move to 3D graphics, and in that department, it just looks too much like a smoother version of Oblivion (inevitable comparison). The gun mechanics (overlooking VATs) are so-so, and by and large there's few other new features.

I suppose that Fallout 3 will probably become more well-known in the current and younger generation, although considering the level of violence and advlt themes in the game, I'd say it's definately a 16+ (no, really - usually the ratings are off my about 5 years, but I would not, in good concience let someone younger than 16 watch even 5 minuutes of the gameplay...), and not just on the grounds of "you can kill someone cruelly". I suppose in the isometric games, they pushed the boundaries of mainstream opinions to get attention, whereas this seems to come accross as excessively gory and beyond decency at times... Still, it's the best thing the market's come up with in the last few years (Yes, I played Crysis, and no, I didn't like it - the gameplay style didn't really appeal to me - guess I'm just too much of a twitchy CS player for that).

Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl is another such title since we're on the topic. And although once they fix it, Clear Sky will be better, it'll never overshadow SoC, - the launch of the second game was mis-managed and it didn't introduce anything revolutionary, although for a game that came out roughly a year after the first installment, it's quite an achievement...

If Fallout 3 becomes the definition of a Fallout game then Curses, fellow Fallout 1&2 fans,we've been foiled again!

Honestly, I could care less. Fallout 3 is a good game that does stay true to the first Fallouts, in as much as a FPS could be expected to stay true to a turn-based RPG written a decade before by other people for a different audience . So whenever some little brat comes along and tells med Fallout 1&2 aren't "real" fallout, I'll just smile to myself because I know that every single detail that the little runt liked about Fallout 3 comes from the first two games either indirectly or just blatantly copypasted. The almount of actual innovation in the game is negligible and it basically just tried to emulate what made the old games great in a format that the developers and their followers were comfortable in. But the lack of innovation is, in a way, a good thing! They are, after all, making a sequel. It'd make no sense if Jaws 3 was about a rabid baboon.

ALl i can think reading this thread is that gamers have been becoming dumber over the years, settling for better visuals and gore... As long as gamers keep going that way games will follow... Its a shame really...
Fallout 1 appealed to a hardcoe audience only? I dont think so... The only crpg i had ever played the time it came out was diablo... Which isnt an rpg! I bought FO1 fter reading a walkthrough! And since every rpg intrplay,black-isle ever produced! So i can say fallout created a hardcoe audience and the first 2 games will always be the definitive games.

And it is a fact that they endured for 10 years having a sequel made after so long. If fallout 3 was a stand alone game produced today, without 1 and 2 having existed, noone would remember it after 10 years nor would make a sequel.

Plagiarism can never reach classic status. Fallout 1 is the definitive FO game.

This is really obvious.

11 years ago when FO2 came out, who were the gamers?

20 something college educated males who used to be nerds, and younger nerds. Computer gaming was still for the geeks, who are in fact more intelligent than your average Joe.

Not long after that (actually about the same time as FO2 came out) the geek factor on computers and computer gaming started to crumble. Gaming was no longer for the geeks but the masses, and the masses as a rule are pretty thick.

There is a lot more to it than that of course in terms of what happened to PC gaming, but its a piece of the puzzle.

Sounds to me your such a fan of 3 you cant stand the idea the original ARE better. I have played every game (I even own them) that Bethesda has made. I also played F1, F2 and tactics (kinda a bad game). I dont look for Morrowind in Oblivion, I certainly not going to look for Oblivion in F3. There all diffrent games and should be respected as such. Fallout 3 is an AWESOME game, ill be hung up in it for a LONG time, as i have been with every game they have made over the years. I play Fallout 3 for Fallout 3. Do yourself a favor man, and pick up 1 and 2 and give them a run threw. You'll thank me for it!

This is silly. Put your statements into perspective.

Of Doom, which is the more definitive? Doom 1, or Doom 3?

Of Deus Ex, which will be more definitive? Deus Ex, or Deus Ex 3? (I realize DX3 isn't out yet, but it has a lot to live up to that won't simply be forgotten.)

What 'defined' Fallout is the lore that it's based on, and that lore is what FO3 is based on. Now, if you asked which will be more popular, that'd be Fallout 3. But typically, the definitive entry into a franchise is the first (unless the first attempt was horrible, and the sequel vastly improved on it.)

Fallout 3 takes the franchise into a new direction, but like apples and oranges, neither are really better. It's preference.

Good comparison. Doom 3 was, from what I've read, Id Software's biggest commercial success at the time, and sold more than Ultimate Doom, Doom 2 and Final Doom combined did.

Yet, the classic Doom sprites are much better known than the Doom 3 models. If I say "cacodemon", do you picture http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/9537/cacodemonqy1.jpg or http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8167/cacodemonjd2iv5.jpg?

How much Doom lost it's sales to piracy? I believe Doom is more played that Doom3. Every boy in my home village and near by villages knew it, they had played it. Unlike Doom 3.