I keep hearing about old time Fallout players saying that Fallout 3isn't proper Fallout.

But let's come from this from a different angle. Already this game has sold probably millions more copies than the first two games combined. It's already reached a far bigger, and far more mainstream audience than the first two games, an audience that will only increase over time.

When you look at the production costs, sheer game size and special effects this game is leaps and bounds ahead, it's like a $20,000,000 remake of a film that was originally shot 20 years ago on a budget of $10,000.

When this happens, in most people's eyes which one is the definitive version?

Look at the Hanninal Lector character played by Anthony Hopkins. Well he wasn't part of the first Lector film. That was Manhunt, and Lector was played by Brian Cox in a completely different manner to Hopkins.

Who is the real Lector? I think most would say Hopkins is the definitive Lector and the original film, although still a solid and decent film is not part of the definitive Lector trilogy even though it started the franchise.

Within a few months it will be the case here.

The old Fallout games played by a few thousand hardcoe RPG gamers on their pc's will be all but forgotten and Fallout 3 will be the definitive start point for the Fallout series.

All future games in the series will then be compared to Fallout 3 and the other games will cease to be relevent, in much the same way as future Elder Scrolls games will be compared to the definitive experience of Oblivion. Nobody will compare Elder Scrolls 5 to Daggerfall or Arena, it will be compared to Oblivion. If it's not like Oblivion people will say its no longer an Elder Scrolls game.


Anyway the reason I say all this is for those whiners who say Fallout 3 is not a proper Fallout game.

Enjoy your whining because in a few months from now it will be seen as the definitive Fallout experience and Fallout 1 and 2 will be perceived as the early, low budget, crude titles from the which game lore of the proper Fallout game (Fallout 3) was based. :thumbsup:

First of all, you're definitely mocking some old Fallout fans. They may be a bit overzealous about fallout 1 and 2 some time, but they sure have a point about the old games and about fallout 3. Your post is not a bad thing at all, and I'm an old franchise fan, but maybe next time keep it nice, like don't add those last few comments. Just a suggestion

But to respond to your post: even now, when fallout 3 has been released for a few weeks, people are buying Fallout 1 and 2 because they liked Fallout 3. Besides that, everything that Fallout 3 breathes is lore from Fallout 1 and 2. The only thing that will be the new standard for Fallout games is probably the way things are visualised.

You actually claim that the next elder scrolls game will be compared to the "definitive experience of oblivion"? Do you have any idea how many elder scrolls fans liked Morrowind a lot more than Oblivion? For that matter, do you know how many people started playing Morrowind after Oblivion and liked Morrowind better?

So Fallout 3 will be remembered as the definitive Fallout experience? No way. Yes some people new to the franchise will look forward to Fallout 4, but a lot of the new fans will be interested in Fallout 1 and 2.

And please, did you play Fallout 1 and 2? There are a lot of things you can say about those 2 games, but they definitely weren't low budget, crude titles. If you truly like Fallout 3, which came forth out of Fallout 1 and 2, why would you try and smack the people who like those games in the face?

To answear your question. NO!, No and no again.

fallout 3 is an absolute wonder of the game, and to say i would go back and play fallout, fallout 2 or fallout tactics would be a lie.

but some of the greatest humour, greatest game machanics and greatest feelings of nostalgia have come out of what they achived the definative fallout is fallout 1 when the special and skills were first implemented. there is features in fallout 1 and 2 that would make you laugh your [censored] off and im not talking child killing groin shots.

im talking character personality "harold". any one can pick up fallout 3 and rearley enjoy the experience but if you played the first to you will get the extended experience.

fallout 3 will be the definative next gen fallout ofcourse but without interplay and the first two there would be no 3.

medpacks, repair kits, setting up anywhere as a base, slavers, wives, selling wives in to slavery, the amount of detail that went into every item or the abillity to look at anything and get some humours comment about it, the amount of personality each commpanion had, blowing holes in walls or doors of hinges. You ant seen nothing unless you played fallout 1 in the late 90s.

and you dont know anything if you thinck that the brotherhood of steel are the good honest savouirs of the wastes. in the old ones they would kill you for carrying a energy weapon just incase they haven't got one yet.

rest in peace fallout 1 and dont worry about these nay sayers, us fans remember you fondly. lol

Yeah, the BOS were definitely a bunch of [censored]s. They were more marauders than some organized military presence.

And ? You've got to be kidding me. They blew up the world in the first place.


Not to say that Fallout 3 isn't a great game. It is...I just don't like the way certain things were perceived.

yeah true maybe I sounded a little harsh in my tone, as I get sick of people creating threads saying this game is rubbish compared to the two earlier games.

But the point still stands. For the vast majority of gamers across all formats Fallout 3 IS Fallout, the other two are just the games it was based on.

In the months and years to come this will be even more true. This was the game that took the franchise mainstream and so in future will be regarded the definite Fallout the true starting point as it were.


You are also quite correct with regards to Morrowind I think too. That was the first Elder Scrolls game that had a console launch as well and can be considered a mainstream game. It probably represents the true starting point for the Eldar Scrolls series.

I seriously doubt less than 10% of Oblivion gamers will have played Arena and Daggerfall.

Likewise with Fallout, some newcomers to the series might well download Fallout 1 and 2 to see what they are like but I doubt more than a handful of these new players will play through them in their entirety and even those that do will see Fallout 3 as the definitive game seeing as that is the one they started with.

So I think what I said will hold true. For the vast majority of gamers the Fallout franchise really begins properly now. This is the game where it has gone mainstream and this will be the game that the overwhelming majority of gamers will look back on as the first proper Fallout game.

Remember that posters on this forum represent only a tiny minority of gamers and most likely only the hardcoe ones, few casual fans of the series will ever even register here let alone make any posts.

So much like Silence Of the Lambs was the first proper Hannibal Lector film even though it was release after Manhunt and featured an entirely different cast this will be seen by gamers and mainstream videogame history as the true and definitive starting point for Fallout.

All future games will be compared to this one, not the originals and therefore those who say this isn't a proper Fallout game will soon be in the wrong.

It will be the first two that wern't proper Fallout games, the early attempts at creating this post apocylalyptic game world, a vision that game to proper fruition with Fallout 3.

Umm yea kid, whatever.

So yes if you never played fallout 1 or 2 then fallout 3 will be your fall out game you compare the next one too. Brilliant deduction.

You're very mistaken. Spoken like a true Fallout newbie, throwing out insults against the legacy that is Fallout, and the gamers who loved the ORIGINAL series. You should be ashamed.

Fallout has far too many flaws that make it much less immersive such as level cap, game ending after the main quest, and plain stupid AI. FO4 is obviously gonna be like FO3, and completely change the face of Fallout, but hopefully FO4 takes away the level cap, add more sidequests, and make the Main quest longer.

To the OP: I see what you're saying. But, I think that it will take a while for the face of Fallout to change. It won't be like GTA, where the change was almost instantaneous. It will be more like Mario. Only now have I started thinking of Mario games as Mario 64 was. (Mainly because Sunshine was such a disappointment, and Galaxy was awesome.)
FO3 had a lot of problems which I'm sure TES fans AND FO fans hated.
...especially the level 20 cap and the damn game ending after the main quest!!!

I think as far as creating a game worthy and proper to the Fallout universe, they actually did a pretty good job.

It's not Fo1 or Fo2 or FoT, it's a completley new chapter in the Fallout universe.

The game is definatley a Fallout game. No, it isn't as gritty or sadistic as the previous games, but that I am assuming is because this was intended for release to a MUCH broader audience than the originals were ever intended for. Yeah it svcks you can't get the babykiller perk anymore but the game never would have been released had they not basically been forced into making concessions to suit the morality squad in the public eye.

What I'm not impressed with whatsoever is the fact that they released it so buggy I can't even finish the main quest in the game.

I still think my argument stands.

Like I said, which is the definitive Hannibal Lector film, Manhunt or Silence of the Lambs?

As a poster said above which is the definitive GTA, the top down GTA 1 or the the third person full 3d GTA 3?

5 years from now Fallout 1 and 2 will be about as well known as Manhunt or GTA 1 or as Daggerfall and Arena.

From this moment on Fallout 3 IS Fallout.

That's all I'm saying :fallout:

I think Dr Who is the best example here.

Those who saw William Hartnell consider him the "True" doctor. Those who grew up with Troughton/Pertwee/Tom baker/Peter Davidson/Colin Baker/Sylvester McCoy generaly consider that particular the true doctor, their doctor.

Those who have just discovered it today, consider David Tennant their doctor.

If you can live with Black and white I emplore all whovians to watch some of William Hartnell, just like all fallout 3 fans who can put up with the pixelated graphics to play fallout 1.

I don't know after about 10 years maybe less fallout 3 will probably be mostly forgotten. But maybe not.

Which is the definitive Star Wars film, Empire Strikes Back or Jarjar Goes to Hollywood?

Argument negated.

Sometimes the lower budget, older version is just -better-.

I really like Fallout 3 its good but god I had a really hard time reading that without smashing my head through my monitor
and earlier today someone was talking to me about Fallout 3 and said something about how its odd they would call it Fallout 3 if there was never a 1 and 2

I shal now go take my chill pills and work on finding the right face for my unarmed character.

I would like to point out that mentioning Daggerfall as forgotten makes it hard for me to believe any word you say. There are people that pay over $100 on eBay to get a copy of Daggerfall. A lot (I mean a LOT) prefer it to Morrowind and Oblivion. You've got to get the info straight before you spout opinions like they're facts.

Fallout 1 came out 11 years ago. People still play it. Why do you think that just because a new Fallout came out people will suddenly stop playing it? Do people stop playing Halo 1 because Halo 3 is out? What about Final Fantasy? I know I prefer Final Fantasy 7 to X or any other, even if X has sold more copies and has shinier graphics. It's the game itself, not the popularity, that makes people play a game and prefer it.

You give a handful of examples of "definitive" titles in a series setting a new standard, but you fail to realize that there are many times more series that don't follow your example. You're coating a single slice of bread with jelly and calling it a P B & J.

We really have no way of knowing for certain--only time will tell.

Nope not at all. The point about Star Wars, and the point about Dr Who is that these series were always massively mainstream.

The original Star Wars films broke all box office records at the time they were huge beyond belief. They will always live as the definitive Star Wars titles.

Likewise things like James Bond and Dr Who.

But when something is little known to the world at large it is never remembered as the definitive version.

Fallout were great games on the pc. Just like Daggerfall and Arena they will always have hardcoe and devoted fans but they will never be seen by the mainstream as the definitive versions of those series.

As I keep saying Manhunt might be the best Hannibal Lector film and some might think Brian Cox did a better job as Hannibal. But is he the definitive Hannibal Lector? No not even close Anthony Hopkins is.


In future if Fallout becomes a big brandname it will be Bethesda's vision of it that permeates into the public consciousness, not the original versions.


THAT is what I'm trying to say. It's completely not the case with Star Wars or Dr Who as when these films and programmes were release they were massively commercialy successful.

Fallout was a niche pc game which may well have been absolutely brilliant and superb to those who played it but it will henceforth no longer be seen as the definitive Fallout game in anyone's eyes apart from the hardcoe devoted nostalgic fans.

Well many people new to the Elder Scrolls Series started with Oblivion, so for them the definitive game of that series will be Oblivion. I started with Morrowind so that game is the definitive elder scrolls game for me. It will be the same way with Fallout I believe. Those who started with 1 and 2 will always see 1 and 2 as the definitive fallout games. However for people like me it will always be fallout 3 lol.

Exactly and around 90% of all gamers will start with Fallout 3.

Morrowind was a fairly big mainstream release as well being big on the consoles as well as PC, so can be regarded as the starting point of the Elder Scrolls game as far as the general public consciousness is concerned.

I'm not talking about which games are better but merely stating the self evident truth that when something first enters the mainstream consciousness is when it is considered the definitive version of something.

For example the definitive Lord of the Rings films are clearly the great trilogy by Peter Jackson which had a huge worldwide following, and not the still great animated version made in the early 80's by Ralph Bashki.

If someone finds a way to completely wipe all knowledge and existence of the previous Fallout games, then Fallout 3 will be the definitive game of the series.

In 10 years, will Fallout 3 have an extremely devoted cult-like following still avidly playing it? I doubt it. Fallout 1 + 2 will. I'm willing to bet unless there are some amazing mods to come out for FO3, people will stop playing when the next 'big thing' comes along.

:rofl:

You are amazing dude. Do you even care to inform yourself before you state your personal opinion as fact?

You guys are missing his entire point. It's not an argument about whether Fallout 1 and 2 are better or worse than Fallout 3. It's simply which one will be more well known. With as many sales as Fallout 3 is getting, Fallout 3 will be much more well known than Fallout 1 and 2. It's the same with Oblivion, Oblivion will be much more well known than Daggerfall will be.

Finally one person get's it :goodjob:


I've not played Fallout 1 or 2. They may be 10 times better than Fallout 3 but the world at large will never know. Fallout 3 is when the game when mainstream and so it will be the Fallout that everyone judges future titles on.

It has nothing to do with which game is better.

I'd love for these people to provide a single example of a case where this has NOT happened.

Star Wars, Super Mario, Dr Who etc are not examples as they were all massively mainstream and permeated into the public consciousness.

And that is the whole point, when something gets into the public consciousness it becomes immortalised, so Doom will always be synonymous with first person shooters, John Wayne will always be synonymous with Westerns, because they became part of the fabric and consciousnesses.

Fallout 3 on account of the millions of sales, massive media hype, huge fanbase etc will do that, whereas the original Fallout games, even if they were much better games by virtue of being pc only titles and relatively little known (in a global casual public sense) will not be seen as the definitive Fallout games.

Another example would be vampires. All the things we think we know as definitive about vampires, can't come out during the day, hate garlick, can only be killed with a stake through the heart etc are NOT actually part of vampiric lore at all. That's Hollywood's interperation and the real view of vampires in the middle ages and beyond didn't include any of those elements.

But which is the definitive view of vampires? It's Hollywood's vision even thought it's WRONG!

Fallout 3 will become the definitive Fallout game becuase its only now that the game will enter the public consciousness of the majority.

The earlier games can be 10 times as good, but it's irelevent becuase they didn't have a mainstream following and so are simply not known to the public, only hardcoe gaming fans.

Fallout 3 can never become the Fallout came.....cos you are talking about mainstream gamers...the worst kind basically...they play a game...tell it to their gamersfriends who all buy it. They finish it and move on to the next game...most of the gamers that buy the game nog will forget about it as soon as some other big game is released.

So it will never BE the Fallout.....neither is Fallout 2.....Fallout 1 is the only game that makes fallout what it is. it does not matter who buys it or not...it is the core of the game...therefor the definitive fallout

Thats very true and hopefully with modding fallout 3 it will get better. I'm sure people will mod or even attempt complete overhauls moding fall out 1 and 2 in full 3D in first person not touching the story other than where appropriate.