If mod 3 and mod 4 do not have a single file which overwrites anything in mod 2, then mod 2 can just be un-installed. But you have to keep track mentally of such complications, thats the only snag with OBMM.

Anyway guys I should have been gone ten minutes ago. Must dash.

@Matthew_Kaine, sorry for slight hijack but it's a helpful topic as it can get confusing so I'll take the chance to address some questions here.



Which setup do you prefer, the F-Inev one or the Ozmo route?

So an F-Inev/OFF install order would be like

1. Robert's Male
2. Detailed Normal Maps for Robert's Male
3. EVE HGEC
4. IFT
5. F-Inev
6. OFF

I guess?

Also, I think my next character will be a High Imperial (by death-knowz), which uses head06, so I guess I should use the textures that come in OFF's Custom/head06 folder. But it also has a head.egt file that is parallel with the textures folder, which seems odd. Where should it go if anywhere? :unsure:

F-Inev, I only tried it out of curiosity, but now I prefer them, less glowy with hdr lighting. I had the standard Ozmo texture, not the oily varieties but that still seemed oily to me.

5 & 6 - the order for those two does not matter, they have no files in common with each other to overwrite. So long as F-Inev installs after IFT (overwriting it)

Head06 I have not used (I remember seeing it somewhere but have not had the occasion to use it) - So needs someone else with that experience.

Reference what I said about the n Dywyll, just using the reset button and not touching the sliders - http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1546725Untitled.jpg, just changed the hair then played on.

alt3rn1ty, I am going to call you "the body guy"

I will give this a go based on the order Arkngt posted and your comments. Worth a try. Thanks.

Glad you didn't say expert, I'm just nosy and break stuff

More links if anyone wants to expand on Roberts v5 a little, since AlienSlof left TESNexus there is no longer TomLongs BAIN available. You can still go to Slofs site and get v5, but it does not have the following ....

if you want the Average seamless body (not included in the v5 complete)....
Search Tesnexus for >Robert Male Average Body V5<

Stock armour and clothing for Average (The stock armour/clothing in v5 is for Muscular body type)...
Search for >Robert Male Average Stock Clothing And Armor Final<

Stock armour and clothing for Average SI (as above)...
Search for >Robert Male Average Stock Clothing And Armor SI<

http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7975945Untitled.jpg

Guess the Detailed Normals work fine for v5?

Also, http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19533?

This thread has been really, really helpful. I have lived with neck seams for far too long.

I haven't used either, just the v5 expanded with average. Downloading at the moment going to see, I notice tlbtlb answers in the comments that he did not know about v5 and was looking into it, but subsequent update history has no mention of compatability with v5 so I presume it will be making us go back a version in texture history for roberts but gaining tlbtlb's re-paint for the neck seam.

Detailed normals - Do you mean Ghogiels Normal Map Replacer? - Not tried, but being a nosy parker, grabbing . Will see what conflicts and if theres any difference.

Exactly. Didn't know about it until Matthew_Kaine's initial post here. But then I've focused more on female bodies as my chars always are.

Ok, now I'm a little confused (like that's hard)

I use Robert's Male (actually All Male Bodies now) and Robert's Female.

So with the suggestions posted here, I would install like this:
1. Robert's Female or AMB (for male)
2. Detailed Normals where available (might be included in AMB, not sure)
3. IFT
4. F-Inev
5. OFF

Is that correct?

I think so - Yes the orders correct, but I haven't tried AMB yet (was tempted but since Malonn has started doing a BAIN wizard for it, holding off until thats done), so for instance if it has its own set of age maps custom made for AMB then they will probably be better than IFT. But if its like any other Rob male compillation with just different body choices and stock clothing/armour, its good.

If you throw Rob Female in that mix, then lose F-Inev - F-Inev being a HGEC compatible texture not Rob Female. Rob Female has its own textures, I remember a few conversations where graphic artists prefer working with them.

------------------------------------------------

On to the experiment .... (open these up in different tabs to compare)

First http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1257243Untitled.jpg

Result http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4824899Untitled1.jpg

Next http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5435878Untitled2.jpg

Result http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1172412Untitled3.jpg

With just the Normals, they do give better definition (and I did use the large texture copied to all races as per the readme so that all races have the best defined normal map, with no compression artifacts), and getting closer to the slight neck seam on males you get with Rob v5 and OFF.

Heres the but - See there is one problem with the test I did, if I am using new textures combined with OFF, then really to be sure (and I have not got the time), as per the_philanthropy's instructions I should have started the game anew, to give the game chance to re-generate all NPCs' with the new combination of textures and OFF.

So, maybe those last bunch could have been as good as what I normally see if I had time to start a new game from scratch, giving good male neck seams with more muscle definition - Or, they are only compatible with Rob v4 setup, not my Rob v5. Those normals look like its worth a go from the start though. Again YMMV.

Note also, the above was on my laptop again, so could have looked better with all bells and whistles on the desktop. .

Edit: Cheeky picture censored

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention. For female, I'm just using the heads from F-Inev, which are compatible. Greenie tells me that they make the faces look better. Now I don't know how that affects seams, so there might be a choice required in that regard. I can't remember what game I loaded F-Inev on I have like 6 on the go right now!

All Male Bodies is a compilation. I don't think it touches age maps. It does have a bug though, unfortunately. The blacksmith's apron is set to skin texture instead of upperbody so the colour looks skin coloured - ewww. Lowerclass shirt 11 (can't remember what it's called right now) also has the same problem. This is for the muscular body type - not sure if it affects the others. I think AMB offers more body type options too.

Regarding face reset and sliders:

For currently existing saved games, would this procedure be correct to make sure all of the NPCs' faces gets recalculated properly?

1) showracemenu, then hit Reset. Don't touch sliders.
2) Don't close console (or type closeallmenus) then make a new save
3) Use Wrye Bash to reimport your old PC's face settings into the new save game
4) Reload new save game

Not sure about the procedure, but using showracemenu will screw Oblivion XP up if you're running it. I know you installed it, so if this is the same game, you'll have to remove Oblivion XP and reinstall if you use showracemenu. You can use WB's face import just fine. I used WB's face export feature. This exports the face to a plugin. Then you can import the face from there without any problems.

Okay, thanks for the heads up... will keep that in mind.

Went ahead and snapped a couple... neck...shots... of my Robert's + OFF (+ TIE) people for reference.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2569/oblivion201103020039020.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6998/oblivion201103020042297.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1131/oblivion201103020047308.jpg
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9072/oblivion201103020053154.jpg
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8969/oblivion201103020127476.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5566/oblivion201103020130227.jpg
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3687/oblivion201103020132559.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8784/oblivion201103020133247.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/6581/oblivion201103020134449.jpg
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6835/oblivion201103020137465.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5889/oblivion201103020145573.jpg
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1552/oblivion201103020246272.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6027/oblivion201103020250109.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6014/oblivion201103020254078.jpg

I stayed up from 5AM until 1PM today (that's not a typo - 8 hours), collecting all of the downloads mentioned in this thread, then carefully converting them all to BAIN-ready formats manually. My BAIN packages are pretty much similar to that of alt3rn1ty's screenshots. Followed alt3rn1ty's and Arkngt's install order very closely, respectively. Then did the usual Wrye Bash merging and stuff. I also tried with and without TNR.

In all test cases, I started a new game, did a face Reset, then - with an intro dungeon skip mod - I ran around the IC Waterfront and the IC Market District to check out the NPCs.

No other mods, I worked on a vanilla base with zero mods.

I am still getting very obvious head and body colour mismatches (both clothed and nvde), and also... all of my NPCs look like a bunch of ugly trannies. :/ It's like suddenly everyone has female hormones in Cyrodiil. Haha.

I'm really burned out now... will post in-game screenshots, as well as screenshots of my BAIN stuff later when I get some sleep.

Guess that's a side-effect of OFF?:



Bearded women or ugly trannies... Hm, tough choice... Glad that others are doing the actual testing - I'll get back on this when starting a new game...

Yiikes! :rofl: Hmmm, maybe I'll stick with my setup and put up with a few neck seams! WyndChyme's screenies didn't look too bad and that is certainly easier than some of the other options.

I actually decided to get Robert's Female instead of HGEC, and I'm kind of afraid to add anything on top of it. NPCs look as ugly as always, but without any of these mods, the neck seams are actually pretty small. New age maps would be nice, so I'm not sure what file type that is so I know to avoid new face textures. Is it .dds like regular textures? If so, should the file name be labeled something obvious? Also, if I was to add TNR on top of this, does that come with any textures? I always download it in .omod format, so I never see what's inside of the compressed file.

I'll post a picture of what my people look like right now when I have more time.

Couple of minor changes to your procedure, and separated 4) and 5) for anyone just wanting to mess with the showracemenu

1) Open the console, type showracemenu, then hit Face, then Reset. (Don't touch sliders if using a custom race which is best with its default reset values).
2) Don't close console, or type closeallmenus, and dont hit Done, - Otherwise all your stats will be reset
3) Press Esc, then make a new save. (this will not work if you started this procedure with your inventory open, save will be ghosted)

4) Use Wrye Bash to reimport your old PC's face settings into the new save game
5) Reload new save game

Also note...

After 1) you can make further adjustments - For anyone wanting to change hair/eyes

After 3) you can Load the save you just made to see the changes in-game straight away. If you dont like the changes you can hit Esc again, load the save before the one you just made, and start at 1) again, when you get to 3) this time overwrite the new save you made first time round. Rinse and repeat until happy.

I dont think it will do the game new start re-calc for the benefit of OFF - So I dont think it can circumvent the need for a new game. The_Philanthropy might have a better idea of the technicalities, but I think using showracemmenu in-game just benefits resetting your player character (and messing with the hair etc), at the most maybe the same race as you, but not all NPC's throughout the game.

Just for reference, here are a few examples of what people look like with just Robert's male and female bodies installed. The only additional textures I have on top of what came with those mods are the detailed normal maps for Robert's males.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face1-1.jpg | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face2-1.jpg | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face3-1.jpg | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face4-1.jpg

Not too bad, right? I'd like to replace the age maps, but I'm not sure how to do that without touching the face textures. How will an age map file be named? Are they the ones that have the "_n" at the end?

No, those are normal maps. Oblivion textures nearly all need a normal map. These contain bump and shine information.
Age maps are those with 'f' or 'm' plus a number at the end.

headhuman.dds = base head texture
headhuman_n.dds = base normal map
headhumanf10.dds = second-to-youngest female age map
headhumanf10_n.dds = second-to-youngest female normal map

Real texturers, feel free to rectify my poor findings. :spotted owl:


You have many choices for age maps: Natural Faces, IFT or OFF. Natural Faces and IFT have base head textures too, so don't forget to remove them before installing if you just want their age maps.

I've added age maps from IFT. The base texture is the same as before. Here's the difference: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face1-1.jpg | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face1-2.jpg

In case it wasn't obvious, that isn't an NPC, he's my own character. I didn't make a new game or enter the race menu to experience the change in age map. Same goes for NPCs, but I didn't have any good shots of the most noticeable NPC faces beforehand that look better now because of the change.

Which version of Robert's Male Body are you using? I tried installing RMB v5 ONLY and nothing else (vanilla base) and even that screws up the neck seems a lot and my NPCs look NOTHING like in your screens!