I've reached the point in my blog where I'm about to start talking about faces and bodies of the character and NPCs. In an effort to get the most desirable result possible, I thought I would ask the community what their personal best approach to eliminating body seams is. HGEC seems to have the largest following, but I've recently noticed that the hands seem to stick out due to the fact that they exist as a separate mesh from the body. And of course there's always the neck seam present in all body mods. What mods do you recommend that eliminates or distracts the player from these issues the most? If it would make it easier, this is what I've done in the past, and maybe someone could tell me how to do this better?

1. Install Robert's Male Body Replacer
2. Install Detailed Normal Maps for Robert's
3. Install EVE (with Khajiit fix)
4. Install Luchaire's HGEC Body Seam Reducer (with the included textures)
5. Install bg2408's High Elf Fix
6. Install IFT & AFT
7. Install Natural Faces
8. Install Better Redguards (with the included textures)
9. Install Luchaire's Khajiit Textures
10. Install TNR

After all of this, NPCs still tend to look like this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face1.jpg | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face2.jpg | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face3.jpg | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face4.jpg | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face5.jpg | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattkaine/Oblivion/Face6.jpg

Sometimes I think this is the best they can get. Other times it looks more like some sort of texture mismatch. Either way, I feel like other people have had better results, and I was wondering whether anyone knew how to achieve that. Any advice is more than welcome. Thanks for your time.

Quite like my set up, except I'm using F-INevOblivion and not Natural Faces. What's AFT?

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6611 I believe

Right, IAFT. Like it a lot.

How much of a difference does that make with the body seams?

I've given up on the body seams so not sure what if any difference compared to others it gives. Nice textures, though - it's my favorite facial textures (also using IFT for its ageing textures).

I use F-Inv myself and it really doesn't do a whole lot for mesh seems.

I found http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35487 to be the best solution for clearing up weird blotchy skin and minimizing seams. It'll overwrite Luchaire's Seam Reducer's EGTs though. I'd be on the lookout for conflicts with Better Redguards too.

Before you read this, make sure you read all of it .....

I get better results without these installed ...

5. Install bg2408's High Elf Fix
6. Install IFT & AFT
7. Install Natural Faces
8. Install Better Redguards (with the included textures)

Also have a read of Luchair's Body Seam Reducer instructions again, first thing to note is the included textures even though you think they are HGEC, are actually modified versions of Ozmo's textures, so work better (on my desktop setup anyway) overwriting Ozmos texture set.

I dont use them on the laptop, just EVE and no Body Seam Reducer (on the laptop I use OFF instead)

The 3 meshes in Luchair's Body Seam Reducer work best on player character, with only slight adjustments of sliders.

For NPC's (And Player Character) - the_philanthropy has taken Luchaires idea to a new level with http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35487. It includes his version of the same three egt's, plus just under 4000 more files.

He mentions a new game start can affect all in-game NPC's too, BUT your mileage may vary .... Read the warning reference starting a new game with them and subsequently removing them afterwards, and also reference playing an on-going game to which you add these. Best scenario is to start a new game with them installed - The caveat being if you remove them at a later date your continued game afterwards may have strange discolourations.

Also note I found they dont work too well with Ozmos for NPC's, as they do with EVE (which is why I still use Luchaires on the desktop)

After quite a bit of experimenting to get the closest match of head and body for all races on our two machine setups, I ended up with EVE plus OFF on the laptop, and Ozmo's plus Luchaires (and modified Ozmo textures included) on the desktop.

Beasts are just a case of finding whats best for you (but also bearing in mind your basic male and female body types and clothing armour designed for them - AlienSlofs Better Beasts for example are brilliant, but aswell as Rob Male you need Rob Female for them, and Slof takes no prisoners when approached about conversions to other female body types, its not going to happen) - All of the above can be upset by your graphics card and settings too...

Nightmare subject to be honest and I dont think theres one tried and true solution for everyone. So have a good study before installing any suggestions

Oh and before I finish, I think I remember IFT (or it could be Natural faces - cant remember which) work better with F-INev - I think it was someone on CanadianIce&Howndogs site that said Enayla designed one to work with the other, so that head and neck tones matched more closely the body. Edit: Enaylas face textures are additional to these; You install either IFT or Natural Faces, then overwrite that with Enayla's

Edit: Forgot to mention - The best seam reduction I have ever seen is Luchaires The Girl Next Door (TGND). She includes female oblivion and shivering isles clothing/armour modified for TGND, and has created a fair few adaptations of armour like Gizmodians Shell of the Artifice. The body part of TGND comprises just meshes - To which you add your favourite body/head textures (so you still have to find the right combination of a HGEC compatible texture setup for it), but the mesh matching at the neck, wrist and ankle are perfect - Unfortunately she did not get much support for conversions and seems to have given up for now. I had to bow to popular demand in my house because I have three lady players wanted the goddess store back , so we use EVE now.

Edit2: In-case you are curious - The problem with The Goddess Store and TGND is TGND has smaller wrists and ankles. So with some of the items at the store designed for Exnem/HGEC you can get a difference of size at the wrist/ankle causing a gap. If you are happy with just what Luchaire and Kalia have spent many hours working on, and the conversions, its brilliant. But imagine trying to convert the Goddess store to TGND .... I dont think its going to happen. I think thats one of the main reasons TGND did not take off, and the fact that TESNexus is buxom wench biased.

I got my best results with Ozmo's textures plus the optional high-res face textures, used with OFF. This conflicts with alt3rn1ty's results, though I don't know if he's using the matched face textures, and it may also be noteworthy that I'm using the 2048X body textures, which are the lower res of the two options. TNR, notably, doesn't look as good with OFF as it does without.

As a side thought, if you're doing this for a how-to sort of blog, you may want to mention some of the various neck-seam hiding amulets and such, which can largely minimize the annoyance factor of what is usually the worst seam. Since I got my PC's neck seam matched quite well I stopped using them, so I don't have names or links handy, sorry!

and that would be because :facepalm: I havent used them :whistling:

:) I just did a check on the desktop - Forgot to include them when I setup the desktop ... so OFF will probably work okay for us with Ozmos textures too. Glad you popped in Tyrthyllanos.

Edit: Just thought, I have not tried IFT with my laptop setup either since using OFF, going to give them a try-out.

Can I use the Optimized Facegen Files even if I'm using Fantasy Figures & Robert male v4 ?

That's when I gave up on body seams as, while TGND perhaps is the best solution they were still visible. Have to say that the comparison screens for Optimized Facegen Files are impressive - haven't tried that (and it seems best to do for a new game as you say). I think I'll try out a new set up when I start a new game.

You have several mods overwriting and canceling out each other here. For one, Natural Faces and IFT replace the exact same files. They're also overwriting Luchaire's head textures, which were specially made to match the female body textures.

I'd uninstall those mods you listed and start over. First, just install the male and female body replacers. Note that these already replace head textures. Fire up the game, see how people look and what needs touching up. Take it slow.

Oblivion skintones are tricky. To get minimal seams, you need matching head and body textures, matching material settings on the body and head meshes (extremely easy to do, you just need to have Nifskope), nice EGTs and age maps. Then there are the NPCs's face maps.

Personally I just use OFF and, since I use Robert's bodies, his (tweaked) face textures. With that, heads and bodies match fairly well. Matching face/body textures? Check. EGTs? Check. Age maps? Check. NPC face maps? Check. Consistent materials? Check. If seams are still visible, I can't be bothered anymore.

Since you use HGEC though, you may prefer Luchaire's Seam Reducer or Navetsea's F-INev Oblivion skinset for head and body textures (can't give links, but search the Nexus).


@The Radec
Sure you can.

Robert's bodies are both quite seamless too.

I just tried on the desktop Rob M, Ozmo body, Ozmo Faces (this time), and OFF (instead of Luchaires Body Seam Reducer) - Have to agree with Tyrthyllanos, theres a slight improvement on what we had.

On the laptop I now have Rob M, EVE, IFT and then overwrite lastly with OFF - I think I like these too with IFT being the new addition in this installation. Need to have a good wander around with the nvde spell and check all races but so far the ones I have hit are a slight improvement on what I thought was as close to seamless as we were going to get.

The optional hi-res face textures is the Face Texture for High Rez Skin Textures v1_2 one, right?



I think I'll try Ozmo body, IFT, Ozmo Faces, OFF. Or is that a stupid idea - I've prefered IFT's ageing over others I've tried but perhaps it will be overwritten by Ozmo Faces and OFF anyway?

Thank you !
Downloading them now

Yep, 'High Rez Skin Textures for HGEC' v1.2 by Ozmo



Between IFT (82 files in textures) and Ozmo faces (89 files - A few more extras in here for Ren Mystic elfs etc), I think you need to choose one, they use all the same files. OFF will overwrite 70 of those.

I love BAIN for this stuff, makes shuffling them around and checking conflicting files so easy.

Thanks for the info!

Just having a revisit to F-Inev textures, last time I tried I did not notice the recommendation to use IFT.

One thing un-usual is F-Inev includes its own head textures (it still uses the age maps from IFT which will not get overwritten), so this one differs in that it should be installed after IFT and OFF. I'm using it with EVE meshes (which is also having its textures overwritten by F-Inev). The only other conflict I have is with Capucines Cosmetic Compilation, a few texture files from that need overwritten too.

http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4084613Untitled.jpg

These couple of screens were not taken in favourable conditions, first came the fog and then the weather decided to add rain too :rolleyes:
Also they are taken on the laptop with Medium texture setting and no AA - so not ideal for screenshots ... but here's IFT with OFF and F-Inev on the two usually awkward female types to get rid of the neck seam...

http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2957001Untitled.jpg

Its a lot more impressive on the desktop. Anyway, for anyone interested theres another option for good neck seams keeping HGEC compatability.

Edit: Postscript - The beastly body parts BAINs I have in my install order after F-Inev are tailored with sub-packages so I can pick and choose rob male and hgec female compatability bits and pieces - Anyone new to body modding dont just go installing the whole packages thinking thats what I did .. You will have a mess
Additionally I am using the EVE_Khajiitfix.esp from the EVE package.

After sifting through all of these different ideas, I was about to decide to just go with Robert's Females, but then I saw alt3rn1ty's screenshot there, and the look there was exactly what I'm shooting for. Do you find the males of all races looking just as good? If so, I might have to give this a shot.

Also, I generally use OBMM to install whatever mods will come included with conversion information for it and install manually for those that don't. How do you recommend adding in these mods through OBMM so if I decide I don't like the results, I can get rid of the files without having weird errors in the game?

EDIT: I'm very glad I made this topic, by the way. Obviously this is an issue that a lot of people have interest in. Thanks for all the input, everyone!

I think the bodies look different when clothed than nvde. I would assume the main purpose of reducing seams is when the NPC is clother/armored. It is in these cases where I notice the most difference. Best sollution for this was OFF. If lookink at a nvde NC the seams are nearly invisible. So it comes down to how well the clothing/armor replacer works by using the appropriate textures from the texture pack you install. I use EVE. In my install I do the following:

Install:
OFF
Body Seam reducer
Roberts Male v5
HGEC base
HGEC 4096 Ozmo body textures

I tried the HGEC 4096 face textures but they did not improve much, if anything.

For a player who does not know anything about nifscope I have yet to find a simple install order for best results with Roberts, HGEC, and EVE stock replacer.

I also notice that things do not change well when uninstalling and reinstalling body mods in an existing game. I recall having read somewhere about when starting a game to turn the age and complexion sliders all the way to the left for best results on NPC (how that relates I do not know). Can anyone confirm this and if so explain why?

Yep, Rob male with IFT and OFF is just as good



Yeah, I used to use OBMM but when you get into trying these things with loads of textures, meshes, and caveats in the instructions, and the fact that OBMM can lose track of what files have/have not been overwritten ... It can get messy. Combined with people telling you to use different archive invalidation methods you can end up with totally un-solveable problems which can only be rectified by re-installing the game. (PS - BSA Redirection does the job, and is the default method used both by OBMM and Wrye Bash, its the only archive invalidation method I use).

Iif you are not using many mods, and write down the order in which you installed everything (so that you can reverse the process when un-installing) - It can be managed with OBMM.

mod 1 installed
mod 2 installed
mod 3 installed
mod 4 installed

To un-install mod 2 (if all these have conflicting files), you would un-install mod 4, then mod 3, then mod 2. Then re-install mod 3, then re-install mod 4. So you now have

mod 1 installed
mod 3 installed
mod 4 installed

With Wrye Bash you just right click un-install mod 2, and choose anneal all. Job done.

Use the newer http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32277 which is still actively being developed. On the occasions I need OBMM (for extracting omods to make BAINs, or re-setting BSA timestamps) - It has been reliable in use.

But then does that mean that with OBMMex, mod 2 could be uninstalled just as easily as Wrye Bash?

If that set up looks just as good for Robert's males, I suppose I'll have to give it a shot.

They shouldn't, the body meshes get skinned with a body texture, and any armour clothing overlaying the skin should be transparent where it shows the skin



OFF has its own versions of the three EGT files, which you have overwritten with Body seam reducer, also Luchaires Body Seam reducer has optional textures which are customised versions of the Ozmo equivalents, which you have also overwritten with Ozmo's originals ... Your install order is a bit upside down


Its a few posts above yours.


Reference un-installing - See note on archive invalidation in my previous post.

Sliders, minimal use if using custom EGT's. In fact from Korana's n Dywyl race mod, in the description she says before starting using any sliders, go into Face, and hit the Reset button. I did that with my current player character and did not touch the sliders at all, perfect skin tone match between neck and body.