Lockpicking has always been a rather basic skill, basically all it does is a small minigame to open containers and doors. Plus, with the open spell, it was practically useless. Not to mention there are now discussions of smashing open locks.

So how can we make it so that security is a useful skill, more fun to use, and more versatile? I've only had one thought so far, based off someone elses thread about engineering, and it is a very rudimentary idea at the moment, but perhaps it could be merged with some kind of primitive mechanical skill (locks = mechanisms) that could create (basic and unadvanced) mechanisms for theives like hunting traps or the like. I don't know. I don't even know if I like it, but what do you guys think could be done?

Uh.. by lockpicking I mean security.

Nobody else have thoughts on this? I'd rather not have it a dull and redundant skill again.

I'll tell you two things: what I would want and what I feel will be the case:

What I would want: is something like in Dragon Age (noticed how much we compare TES to it nowadays? ), where rogues had various benefits such as being able to detect and disarm traps, open containers innaccessible for other character to get extra loot and such. Security could also govern making traps - this is Skyrim you know, the land of untamed wildernesses. Hunting wouldn't really be much fun without traps.

What I feel: security will remain what it is and cease to exist as a seperate skill. It will end up as just a few perks under a different stealth skill, possibly Sneak.

This sounds reasonable to me... put a perk under Sneak skill. Or better yet, make it somehow the same value as an Open spell. Could the Thiefs Guild "teach" you this skill the same way you "learn" an Open spell. You could learn at different levels just like spells -- easy lock, hard lock, etc.

They should remove the Open spell and include Lock Bash, and then have some spells do the same thing as if you're breaking the lock with your weapon. Main disadvantage to lockpicking would be that it's loud as hell, so that you can't use that to break into homes or anything. (In dungeons this means that you have to fear drawing the attention of their inhabitants.)

Lockpicking itself shouldn't be a stupid minigame, but since dice rolls aren't exactly popular anymore (which is a shame, but I can't do anything about it) another system would have to be found. I've discussed the many options a lot of times already, and won't repeat myself now.

Adding traps to the Security skill would be awesome. And it makes sense, since mages seem to get magic traps, so stealthy characters should have a mechanical answer to that.
The ability to lock and/or trap a container/door would be something that falls under Security as well. If you add all that to the skill, it would definitely be a worthy complement of the Sneak skill.

That's possible, but what would fill the empty skill spaces?

Sneak
Speechcraft
Marksman
Alchemy
Acrobatics/athletics?
???

I think I heard in the Todd Howard podcast that there's like 250-some perks, including levels. So, if there are 18 skills, that's 13-some-odd perks for each skill on average. That's alot of perks for skills like Sneak and Speechcraft -- at least it seems.

For example...

(very quickly and basicially jotted down)

Sneak perk trees:

Stealth 1,2,3
Lockpick 1,2,3
Traps 1,2,3
Pickpocket 1,2,3

With that many perks for so few skills, it seems to make sense to consolidate

Any other thoughts on how the Sneak perk tree might look?

While having lockpick in sneak doesn't really make sense in the first place, having traps in sneak makes even less.

I'd like to have a more basic "mechanism"-skill with the ability to set or disarm traps beside lockpicking,
also this would open up for more perk possibilities than if it just was lockpicking.

I'd also like (and this goes for all skills) the ability to use skill knowledge in conversations like in New Vegas (I believe they did this to some extent in FO3 also?).

That question has been left open for a very long time now, along with the 6th combat skill (One-Handed, Two-Handed, Block, Armor, Smithing, ???).

Hand to hand maybe?

Don't you often sneak while performing those activities? Anyway, I have some of the same worry that your original post prods at... will Security (and possibly other Thief skills) be underdeveloped as compared to other classes. I could think almost immediately of a monstrous perk tree for most of the Warrior skills, for instance. I can't say the same immediately for many of the Thief skills.

First of all, i think the lockpicking minigame should take place in real time, so picking locks would be a more stressfull and exciting event. Also, if lock bashing is in, lockpicking would have the advantage of being a stealthy way to break into houses (a lock bash would awake people in the house and alert the guards).

Finally a totaly agree with the trap idea. In OB there was traps in dungeon and I think it's been confirmed that there will be traps in Skyrim too. So I believe the only way to disarm those traps should be trough the security skill, thus giving that skill another use (and another skill tree possibility)

There has already been a very lengthy discussion about that possibilty, and we're still left with nothing definitive.

I know we can't be sure, but I haven't seen any other close to plausible possibility.

Oh, another thought. What about puzzles? I have no idea how these are done but perhaps they could be integrated into it somehow.

And the more I think, the more truly "Sneak" type abilities I can think of (though still not as easy as Warrior skills).

Perhaps Security could support it's own perk tree with lockpicking, trapmaking, puzzles, and... ?

Would like to see some guesses at the Security perk tree form anyone. I think that would be fun conjecture.

Yes, but people might hum while cooking, it doesn't mean that when you practice humming in tune better you will become a master chef!

The Security skill does need some work. I would like to see traps and disarming traps. Maybe even bomb making, like smoke bombs or stun bombs.

Security seems to relate to all sorts of home-secuirty equipment and not just lockpicks. I like the disarm trap idea (other characters would have to activate them at range and alert everyone).

Maybe the alteration Open spell could be a noisy spell and alert guards as well (unless you get perks).

This is a really good idea idea. It really bothered me that there were certain skills in OB that were so useless (Speechcraft, security). If they made these skills more useful It'd be easier to make more accurate stealth based characters.

I dislike the lockpick game in Oblivion and the recent Fallouts. I much prefer the PC (if they are skilled enough), manage to pick the lock themselves or fail trying.

However... Going on the assumption that the lockpick game is in... (and we all know its too late to change it riiight); I would like it if the game used the PC's skill with locks to reveal the inner workings of the lock, where the expert lockpicking PC affords the player with the entire inner workings of the lock, while the novice PC can only show a few basic features (and possibly incorrect due to lack of skill?).

Redesign the lockpick game so that success is harder (but still possible) when doing it blind ~as the novice lock picker does not know the workings of the lock except on a conceptual level, while the expert has studied or even taken apart such a lock, and knows it well.

**Of course, this implies the existence of different lock interiors, and the possibility for the veteran player to guess wrong when playing a novice lock picker.

***It'd also be a plus in my book for the game to have various lock pick tools ~some appropriate for certain locks and not others; and the possibility of breaking a tool and not being able to use it in the lock ~possibly not being able to pick the lock at all, or with greater difficulty without it.

That is a really nice idea, it could also work with a (hopefully good) disarm trap minigame. from a simple tripwire or preasure plates to more advanced designs

I actually thought that the lockpicking in Fallout 3 was rather good. I mean, I can't say that I know of any game that beat that system, I personally think that just point-and-click is rather stupid and unimaginative. Why not make it truly interactive? I did think that the Oblivion variant was poorly done, however. Fallout 3 was much better, because you could actually hear and see it when you were doing it wrong and thus ease up on the lockpick before it broke.