Me again. =/

I've always loved RPGs and open world sandbox games. They're the ones that unleash gaming's true potential as a really interactive experience, that you directly alter with your own actions. As such, I've spent a lot of time listening to podcasts, reading articles or watching interviews in which developers talk about building these types of non-linear games which require lots of atmosphere.

I don't think anyone can doubt that making a game with good atmosphere isn't one of, if not the, main goal here. For a title that has such a large area to explore, it's got to feel right; magical and fantastical, but no matter the genre or take, all imagined worlds have the same principles to feeling alive and real. Fun and actual gameplay comes in later, but if you're spending 300 hours in an unconvincing land, then it won't be fun; you'll always feel a sense of 'this isn't right', and you won't feel immersed, which is vital for enjoyment and emotional connection.

Graphics, obviously, help this. And Skyrim looks to have no lack of beauty. But it's the wealth of small, often minor features or mechanics that truly make or break a game world. Take S.T.A.L.K.E.R., for example. While the textures may be bland and outdated, the lighting is superb. And when combined with small things, it has a huge effect. Why do players get so scared when, say, coming up to a Bloodsvcker layer? Not just because of the streaks of intermittent lightning; it's the fact that, at night, you've wondered past the layer and seen odd lights and heard strange noises. You've noticed dead bodies of blood around the place, which makes the place feel like it's got history. Bad history. You've heard rumours fro, NPCs about this place, and you know what it's about, but not what to expect. Combined with the graphics and the visual clues, they various little hints and details add to making the whole place just feel so...tangible.

After playing these types of RPGs/Open world games for a long time, I've come up with my own little maxim that I think you can apply quite well to all those games that have truly outstanding atmosphere, truly feel real, and truly engage with the player. Basically, after you've turned off the game, imagine the game world. And simply ask yourself: Is it possible for that world to function without me?

Example: GTA. Not an RPG, but still has the open world idea. Take Vice City or San Andreas. Those worlds only functioned with the player inside them. If you imagine that you weren't playing, but the game was still running somehow, it would be utterly dead. Cars would still go round, but nothing else would happen; all those missions are simply waiting for you. The cops wouldn't have to chase anyone down. The gang wars would never happen, as in the game it takes the player to press a button saying 'Start a gang war'. NPCs would wonder aimlessly around, without purpose, and it just wouldn't feel real. The game world is doing nothing but waiting and reacting for one person; you.

GTA IV, on the other hand, pretty much nails it. Thanks to what you've seen or experienced in the game, you know random events can occur. So, if you imagined Niko Bellic went away for a while and Liberty city was left to it's own devices, it would actually make for a pretty convincing world. The police would still chase criminals, as you've witnessed while playing the game police whiz past chasing someone else, so you feel like 'Hey, there's stuff going on that isn't player-dependant'. NPCs would carry shopping home, dash between awnings in the rain, and drive places. Helicopter tours would fly around the city, day would turn to night, there'd be a shoot-out somewhere, the weather would change, NPCs, react, and so on and so forth. It'd be a slightly boring place, sure, but you still feel like things would happen, events would occur, and there'd be some purpose and order without you. The game, on this occasion, isn't simply waiting for you to affect it; it's a realistic, alive place, that you just happen to have a very active role in.

This can be applied across many of these types of games. In S.T.A.L.K.E.R, Duty and Freedom patrols occasionally run into each other and have a fight in one of the areas. That made it feel alive, real, ever changing, and so on. As you went further in the game, you went to places with worse atmosphere. These sorts of events got fewer, until essentially it was only you doing the unique, world-chaining things; the game was just waiting for you the imitate a mission to go somewhere and so something. If you just didn't play, nothing would happen.

For Skyrim, I actually have great faith in Bethesda because despite engine limitations, Fallout did a pretty good job of this. You'd find people fighting over a fridge, or someone with a bomb strapped to them, and these make the place feel dynamic, and like it would be a pretty interesting, eventful place without you (though, of course, not as eventual as if you were there). But really small things could make or break the world of Skyrim. Imagine, for instance, you go to a town and see Jimmy. You have a chat, and he says he's going to start work soon, or really wants to be an adventurer. You go off and do missions and explore the world, but eventually you cross the same town again. Jimmy's there, with a lovely new piece of armour on. He tells you he did a bit of work for a friend, and earned enough to buy this really awesome briastplate. And you, as a player, are thinking "Wow! While I was off doing my own things, Jimmy was actually off doing his own things, independent of me! It feels like this is a real place where people do new things and have experiences regardless of whether I'm here! I can't wait to see what else has changed!". Or probably just think "Wow, that's kinda awesome". Point is, the world now feels alive, real, atmospheric, engaging, and full of wonder and change and dynamicness (I made that word up).

There are loads of little ways to do this. A character gets a new haircut (no, seriously, thing about how amazing it's be to see a character walk about with a new haircut, as if he's decided, of his own will, that it's too long and needs cutting). A house has a broken roof, and after a while, you go back to see the house and it's fixed. A store talks about getting new stock soon, and you come back later to see they've actually got it. You could even have mini-missions going on that you don't take part in. You see a wife running down the street of the town, asking if anyone has seen her husband. You can't take it as a mission or do anything to alter the events, but you find her later, hugging her rescued husband. And you think, "Hey...

Is it possible for that world to function without me."


Sorry for such a long post, and I apologize for any typos or mistakes, and looking back over this please don't steal it as I might use it for an actual article on http://www.gamersguidetolife.com/ 'coz I've accidentally got carried away and written a [censored] novel.. But I hope what I've said has made some sense.

I always thought Fable did a good job with this. In Fable 1 for example (haven't played much of the newer ones to notice) there would be ships that deliver trade goods on certain days of the week, and villagers transporting those goods to individual shops. And then every night all the villagers would gather at the tavern and have a few drinks. Small details, yet it did wonders in making the game world feel alive.

I also think oblivion did a decent job with this as well, obviously it could be better, but so could everything. For example there were the random 'adventurers' that you could come across in some forts. And like you said, it causes one to think, "wow while I am out doing my own thing, they are living their own life and exploring dungeons and what not as if they have a mind of their own!" or, "wow that was kinda cool" :tongue:

My point is, I believe that Bethesda will take the steps to implement various little features to make the game feel alive. They have done it in the past and know what they are doing, so I don't think we have to worry.

Don't apologize for the long post; it's an excellent one.

Your observations are spot on, and I'm certain Bethesda will make such a game world.

@HawkeLarkin: You joined the community with one hell of a bang. Thank you and welcome =D

Please, it's my pleasure to be here. I'll try hang around a lot more, and I'm also working on getting a Skyrim interview for GGTL (with Nick Breckon), he said to hold on a bit and there might be stuff later down the line.

But yeah. Thanks for the kind words -D

Sorry for the double post, but if anyone has any other examples of games that do this well, or even games that fail on it, it'd be really coll to think about them, and see what could be taken over into Skyrim.

One old school game that had a great atmosphere was mercenaries playground of destruction. It was set in Korean with a mercenary accepting contracts from four powers (Mafia, Chinese, S. Korean, and AN). The game world would have fights between rival nations break out. The North Koreans attack you on site and can cause giant battles. And the best part is that the vehicles and weapons would change as you did contracts for the countries. This game is also a sandbox game so its comparable to TES.

It would be sweet in skyrim to have patrols from opposite sides of the civil war start a brawl.

I love your examples. I think extremely simple things would help this along. As an example, characters could have pool of outfits that they could wear on any given day. For instance, a labourer could have 2 different sets of fatigues. One a green shade and one brown, one has a hat one doesn't. And when he's not at work, he goes and changes and another limited pool of (still peasant) clothes is selected from. In this way, many characters could have access to different outfits so that each time you see them, they may be wearing something slightly different.


I think this, what appears to be a fairly simple mechanic, could really liven things up, since it would feel like there were different people around, and you would see them change.

I get that this is different, but it just popped into my head.

Im pretty sure thats what Radiant AI is being used for.

I dunno... IMO GTA 3, Vice City, San Andreas, GTA 4, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and NV......all of these games ceased to exist as soon as my character left them. Some had more 'scripted' events that made it seem like the world went on without me.....but in all reality NOTHING happened when I wasnt there. People would walk around and 'pretend' or 'act' like they were doing things, but the game stopped when I did. So to me, NONE of these games nailed it on the head like you suggested.

Im all for your ideas though. I just think that was the whole purpose behind raidant AI. I cant wait to see some of the things they do with this. IMO, the whole purpose of it is to make a more believable, living, breathing world. From what I have read so far, its supposed to make people act like human beings (or at least intelligent, human-ish beings) and perform realistic activities that make the entire experience seem un-scripted and original. But we will just have to wait and see.

Nice post. I also think the realistic economies approach is a good wayto help this. Cities not existing with no visible trade or support, people clearly going out and doing jobs, shops having higher prices after disasters, etc.

Well, considering there is a living economy you can influence, dragons can attack towns randomly and that even the bloody wolves have schedules now it think Bethesda has this bit pretty well nailed down. Some NPCs already took their clothes off when they went to bed in Oblivion so it wouldn't be hard to have them randomly pick one set of clothes they own to wear when they wake up.
Of course there are limitations, the game can only keep your immediate area in memory with possibly some economic schedules and script timers running in the background

The first thing and probably the most important is you must always have consistency. There's a very finite amount of room to be lenient and change things all willy nilly. If we don't even know the rules that this world operates on, then how are we to take it seriously if it's always changing?

I thought Red Dead did a great job of making the dying west feel alive.

I would say games are getting better at making games feel lively.

I think that if anyone knows how to make a world feel alive, it is Bethesda. Every game they have made felt alive to me, especially at the time. After hundreds of hours I can easily go back and say this could have been better, but overall I feel like Morrowind, Oblivion, FO3 and NV have been the most 'alive' worlds Ive ever been in.

Like I said prevoiusly, Radiant AI is supposed to help with this greatly. They know what they are doing. Im sure Skyrim will feel more alive than ever.

To touch on that, I think GTA 4 did do a good job at creating a beautiful, alive city. However. You could go in almost NONE of the buildings. There were very limited options for clothing, weapons, quests, unique characters, landscapes, etc. You could not pick up nearly every item in the game. You could not sell items or use magic, or progress levels and skills. There are a lot of pros and cons about each game but in the end I think Oblivion and even Morrowind felt more alive than GTA 4. There is simply so much content in ES games and I have never felt as alive in TES as I have in any other game.

The developers have already shown they know how to improve NPC AI to make them more realistic and believable. I have a feeling that Skyrim will feel like a living breathing world more than any other game before it.

Instead of making the world "feel" alive, they could always just add more simulation aspects and actually make it alive.

True. I would like that, however I think going for an overall "feeling" is a better time sink for the Devs. I assume they're working hard to meet the deadline, and I just can't see being able to tie your shoes* as top priority.


*Sorry for the terrible example, it was the first thing that popped into my head.

As long as the illusion of an alive world works, you don't actually have to make it truly alive. Have in mind that the player won't be able to see 99% of the game world at any one time, so for the player it doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. As long as the world feels real where the player is located at any point. This is not to say that the rest of the world doesn't matter, but if something happens elsewhere out of sight then that should be because it has an impact on the player - e.g. people in Oblivion walking from one town to another, and the player sometimes being forced to track him down. But that too has a direct impact on the player and his place in the world.

Yeah, but that requires a bunch of extra features and stuff, all which take focus away from other aspects of the game. If you at least give the illusion things are happening regardless of you, then you get mostly the same effect.

Probably the easiest way of doing this is having the player come across a random fight between two animals or NPCs, or some dead bodies as if there has been a recent fight.

Leave that to Dwarf Fortress buddy.