How do I merge Mods? : IV - Oblivion

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:26 am

A better processor would only help so much as to improve the overall smoothness. That is an odd thing to notice, haha.

Timescale should not increase the speed at which a character walks...A mod would have to make time fast forward, which is different. There is a mod out there that does that, I think.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:48 am

Are you using sr_Oblivion_Stutter_Remover? It does seem to make things move faster.
Or does one of your mods change the timescale?

I am using OSR. None of my mods change timescale, unless one of the "Real" mods, although I purposely checked to make sure any automatic timescale changers were disabled.

I would imagine the answer is the Apple processor. To test this, I reinstalled Oblivion on my brother's old Windows machine (we rebuilt it). I copied and pasted my install from my MacBook Pro onto the PC (Windows) machine. I ran some tests and this is what I discovered.

MacBook Pro Stats:

Mac OS X 10.6.2 (Snow Leopard)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4 GB 667 Mhz DDR2 SDRAM
512 NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT card
1440x900 Resolution
Playing Oblivion via Bootcamp with Windows XP, Service Pack 3, installed

Windows Machine Stats:

Windows XP 2002 Service Pack 3 installed
Processor: Intel Pentium D 820 Dual Core 2.80GHz
3 GB Ram
512 ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series graphics card
1440x900 Resolution
Onboard sound card.
Recently rebuilt machine, Oblivion is the only program on it.

I installed Oblivion on my Macbook because my brother was rebuilding the Windows machine. Once I cleared most of the errors, made sure my install was as clean as I could make it, we migrated my installed over to the Windows machine (clean install of Oblivion GOTY, followed by pasting both the Programs/Besthesa Softworks/Oblivion and the Oblivion directory in the Documents and Settings/My Documents/My Games directory. The install on both machines is identical.

So here's my problem: Why is Oblivion running so much poorer on the Windows machine than on my Macbok Pro?

Here are some numbers (FPS rates at various places):

Windows Machine MacBook Pro

Chorral, Night 9-12 15-22
On Red Road 12-15 18-24
On Bridge over Upper Niben 5-9 17-21
Imperial City, Waterfront 7-10 7-12
Imperial City, Market 4-10 11-18
Imperial City, Talos Plaza 17-21 15-21
On Orange Road 7-20 17-26

I've tried a variety of things to improve the frame rate on the Windows machine. These things include (the items marked with an * had no effect on frame rate):

LowPoly Grass and Trees*
Operation Optimization*
Quiet Feet (maybe 1-2 FPS)
Disabling music (maybe 1 FPS)
http://www.tweakguides.com/Oblivion_1.html (hard to say if this helped or not) Also, backed up original .ini
I've tried switching from HDR to Anti-aliasing. No real change.

I'm getting serious lag on the Windows machine. That's probably the biggest problem I'm having right now. I don't think it's a graphics issue as none of those changes seem to improve performance. The problem seems to occur when there are more npcs on the screen (in the cell?). 8 or 9 or more npcs/creatures and I'm seriously lagging.

On my Mac, the biggest problem is random CTDs, about every hour or maybe two hours or so. I'll be playing and suddenly...CTD. Sometimes I'll get a C++ error (although those have dropped significantly since installing the latest Microsoft C++ package). As I noted above, I've sorted my load order, cleaned the recommended mods with TES4edit, used WryeBash to build a patch.

If anyone has any suggestions on what I can do next to improve performance on either of these machines, I'd love to hear it. Even a suggestion on where to start.

My load order again, for convenience:

Spoiler

Oblivion.esm
GTAesgaard_2.esm
Windfall.esm
TR_OoT_Main.esm
Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
Cobl Main.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm
Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm
TamrielTravellers.esm
FCOM_Convergence.esm
Armamentarium.esm
Artifacts.esm
Kvatch Rebuilt.esm
Better Cities Resources.esm
Progress.esm
StaticAlchemyMod.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
Better Cities .esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
Francesco's Dark Seducer Weapons Patch.esp
FCOM_Francescos.esp
FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp
FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp
Fran Armor Add-on.esp
Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp
Atmospheric Loading Screens - Original Text.esp
oc_darker_nights.esp
WindowLightingSystem.esp
ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp
FF_Real_Thirst.esp
TFF_Races_Base_RSM.esp
Acolyte_Of_Kynareth_HGEC.esp
Adonnays Classical Weaponry.esp
Adonnays Elven Weaponry.esp
ArchersDesire2.esp
EY_AoD.esp
Slof's Bracelet Collection.esp
Slof's Bracelets & Rings.esp
VA_HonamiDaito.esp
VA_UniqueKatana1.esp
UFF & ROBERT Noviere's Gray Fox Armor.esp
UFF Blood Ice.esp
UFF & RM Black Exnem Warrior Armor.esp
UFF & ROBERT Cold Steel.esp
Blackmarsh_Witch_HGEC_Clothing.esp
UFF - Celtic Witch Robes.esp
Royal Ranger Armor.esp
TFF_Armor_Base.esp
TFF_Clothing_Base.esp
UFF RM Dark Rider Armor.esp
UFF Black Courtesan Dress.esp
HGEC Witch Queen Ritual Robe.esp
UFF & RM Black Templar Armor.esp
UFF Dragonbone Armor Set.esp
UFF & RM Black Plate Armor.esp
UFF & RM Gold and Silver Daedric Armor.esp
UFF & RM Dark Daedric Armor.esp
UFF & RM Morrigan Armor.esp
UFF & RM Vermillion and Silverthorn Robes.esp
UFF_Unrepetant_Archer.esp
UFF_Jen?es_Honor.esp
UFF RM Ranger Armor.esp
KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp
FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp
Cobl Glue.esp
Cobl Si.esp
FF_Real_Thirst, Cobl.esp
OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp
FCOM_Cobl.esp
Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
FCOM_BobsArmory.esp
Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp
FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp
Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
FCOM_WarCry.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp
FCOM_Convergence.esp
FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp
FCOM_RealSwords.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - No Swarms.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - No Slimes.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - No Werewolves.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - No Beholdens.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp
TamrielTravellers4000.esp
TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp
FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp
FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp
FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp
FCOM_Archery.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp
ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp
ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp
KDCircletsOOOOptimized - Loot Only.esp
OOO-WaterFish.esp
Castle Ravenpride.esp
Ivellon.esp
Akiviri Imports MOBS.esp
Syntyche's Cavern.esp
AkaviriSamuraiShop.esp
Artifacts.esp
Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp
Better Benirus Manor.esp
GTAesgaard.esp
GTAesgaard_2.esp
Gates To Aesgaard 2 Delayer.esp
Guardians of the Nine - Akatosh Chantry.esp
Kvatch Rebuilt.esp
Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp
Malevolent.esp
Slof's Oblivion Goth Shop.esp
The Ayleid Steps.esp
TR_Stirk.esp
Stirk_Compatibility_Patch.esp
VaultsofCyrodiil.esp
VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp
VHBloodlines 1.2.esp
Windfall.esp
za_bankmod.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
TOTF.esp
TOTF Delayer.esp
RTT.esp
The Lost Spires.esp
Blood&Mud.esp
The Mystery of the Dulan cult.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp
FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp
FCOM_Knights.esp
FCOM_Ruin.esp
FCOM_DulanCult.esp
Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp
FCOM_EnhancedDaedricInvasion.esp
bartholm.esp
FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp
Harvest [Flora].esp
Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp
Bag of Holding.esp
DS Less Predictable Respawn.esp
DBWGP.esp
Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp
RealisticFatigue.esp
RealSleepExtended.esp
Gather Ye Rosebuds.esp
bgMagicEV.esp
SupremeMagicka.esp
SM_ShiveringIsles.esp
SM_OOO.esp
SM_MMM.esp
SM_COBL.esp
SM_UnlockSpells.esp
SM_Scrolls.esp
SM_SigilStone.esp
attack and hide medium v2.1.esp
nGCD.esp
ProgressMBSP.esp
ProgressSBSP.esp
ProgressRBSP.esp
ProgressRacial.esp
ProgressArmorer.esp
immersive_caves_auto.esp
Dark Dungeons.esp
Dark Dungeons - SI.esp
TFF_Races_Base.esp
BP_Roberts_BR_Hair.esp
bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp
bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp
Willful Resistance.esp
Better Cities - Full City Defences.esp
Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp
Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.esp
Better Cities - Tears of the Fiend.esp
Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp
Better Cities - VHBloodlines.esp
Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp
Better Cities Full - B&M Edition FPS Patch.esp
Better Imperial City.esp
Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp
Better Cities - COBL.esp
[GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp
[GFX]_Initial_Glow-self.esp
Real Hunger, Cobl.esp
TuStartingOptions_01.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Streamline 3.1.esp

~ Dani ~

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:26 pm

1 to 2 hours sounds good enough to me running on a laptop...I do not know how people do that...talk about mobile heat...

Edit: ...not modded Oblivion...

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:07 am

1 to 2 hours sounds good enough to me running on a laptop...I do not know how people do that...talk about mobile heat...

Edit: ...not modded Oblivion...

:) And mine's fairly heavily modded.

But you're right about the heat. My MacBook gets pretty warm after a couple of hours of gameplay.

~ Dani ~

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:55 am

Desktops can choke on FCOM with only a 2.4GHz processor, and your GPU must be smoking. Avoid the big texture packs to be nice to your laptop, please...or optimize them really well. Throw in LowPolyGrass or Short Grass, Distant Land MAX, PyFFI-Optimized anything you can get your hands on, Quiet Feet MAX, Streamline, OSR, clean plugins, merge mods that do not need to be separate to get your list as short as possible so that the game processes fewer files...what else...going to my optimization pages...Operation Optimization, change the uGridDistantLoad to a lower value (i.e., 15) and change the SL fog settings accordingly,

SirDrinkAlot - recommendations for users with Onboard Soundcards
bDSoundHWAcceleration=0
bMusicEnabled=0
iMaxImpactSoundCount=16

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:31 pm

Desktops can choke on FCOM with only a 2.4GHz processor, and your GPU must be smoking. Avoid the big texture packs to be nice to your laptop, please...or optimize them really well. Throw in LowPolyGrass or Short Grass, Distant Land MAX, PyFFI-Optimized anything you can get your hands on, Quiet Feet MAX, Streamline, OSR, clean plugins, merge mods that do not need to be separate to get your list as short as possible so that the game processes fewer files...what else...going to my optimization pages...Operation Optimization, change the uGridDistantLoad to a lower value (i.e., 15) and change the SL fog settings accordingly,

SirDrinkAlot - recommendations for users with Onboard Soundcards
bDSoundHWAcceleration=0
bMusicEnabled=0
iMaxImpactSoundCount=16

Thanks for this. I've utilized QTP3 Redemized for both the laptop and the desktop. Other things I've already done:

QuiteFeet
Streamline (set uGridDistantLoad to 15, change SL Fog settings)
OSR
Cleaned all plugins
Operation Optimization
bDSoundHWAcceleration=0
bMusicEnabled=0
iMaxImpactSoundCount=24 (will lower it to 16)

Will take a look at the other options on this list now. Thanks for the help.

~ Dani ~

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:01 am

Operation Optimization is not all that useful. I can't cite specific posts, but I have seen that the general opinion among people who know what they're talking about is that this mod doesn't do much.

You could also try turning down the resolution...

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:27 am

Operation Optimization is still valid as far as I know. You should PyFFI-optimize it, however.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:39 pm

Okay, I'm about to merge mods for the first time and I have some questions. I read the following threads before asking:

http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/tunesetup/merging

http://www.gamesas.com/?showtopic=898653&hl=TES4Gecko

This gave me a lot of information, some of which went right over my head. Sorry. What I'm planning on doing is merging 27 mods that add armor and clothing to various venders and locations throughout Cyrodill. My current load order:

Spoiler

00 Oblivion.esm
01 GTAesgaard_2.esm
02 Windfall.esm
03 TR_OoT_Main.esm
04 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
05 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
06 Crafting Skill Engine.esm
07 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.72]
08 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.34]
09 Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.7b3p3]
0A Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm
0B TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.36]
0C FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.9MB3]
0D Armamentarium.esm [Version 1.35]
0E Artifacts.esm
0F Kvatch Rebuilt.esm
10 Better Cities Resources.esm
11 Progress.esm [Version 2.2]
12 StaticAlchemyMod.esm
13 CM Partners.esm
14 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.2.0]
15 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
16 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]
17 Better Cities .esp
18 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
19 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
1A Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
1B Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
++ Francesco's Dark Seducer Weapons Patch.esp
++ FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.9]
1C FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp [Version 0.9.9]
1D Fran Armor Add-on.esp
1E Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp
1F Atmospheric Loading Screens - Original Text.esp
++ oc_darker_nights.esp
20 WindowLightingSystem.esp
21 Ayleid Loot EXtension - OOO Dungeons.esp
22 ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp
23 FF_Real_Thirst.esp
24 Map Marker Overhaul.esp [Version 3.4]
25 Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp [Version 3.0.2]
++ TFF_Races_Base_RSM.esp
26 Acolyte_Of_Kynareth_HGEC.esp
27 Adonnays Classical Weaponry.esp
28 Adonnays Elven Weaponry.esp
29 ArchersDesire2.esp
2A EY_AoD.esp
2B Slof's Bracelet Collection.esp
2C Slof's Bracelets & Rings.esp
2D VA_HonamiDaito.esp
2E VA_UniqueKatana1.esp
2F UFF & ROBERT Noviere's Gray Fox Armor.esp
30 UFF Blood Ice.esp
31 UFF & RM Black Exnem Warrior Armor.esp
32 UFF & ROBERT Cold Steel.esp
33 Blackmarsh_Witch_HGEC_Clothing.esp
34 UFF - Celtic Witch Robes.esp
35 Royal Ranger Armor.esp
36 TFF_Armor_Base.esp
37 TFF_Clothing_Base.esp
38 UFF RM Dark Rider Armor.esp
39 UFF Black Courtesan Dress.esp
3A HGEC Witch Queen Ritual Robe.esp
3B UFF & RM Black Templar Armor.esp
3C UFF Dragonbone Armor Set.esp
3D UFF & RM Black Plate Armor.esp
3E UFF & RM Gold and Silver Daedric Armor.esp
3F UFF & RM Dark Daedric Armor.esp
40 UFF & RM Morrigan Armor.esp
41 UFF & RM Vermillion and Silverthorn Robes.esp
42 UFF_Unrepetant_Archer.esp
43 UFF_Jenées_Honor.esp
44 UFF RM Ranger Armor.esp
45 KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp [Version 1.2]
++ FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp [Version 0.9.9]
46 Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.72]
47 Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63]
48 FF_Real_Thirst, Cobl.esp
49 OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp [Version 1.72]
++ FCOM_Cobl.esp [Version 0.9.9]
4A Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
4B FCOM_BobsArmory.esp [Version 0.9.9]
4C Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp
++ FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp [Version 0.9.9]
4D Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
4E FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9MB3]
4F Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.34]
50 ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp [Version 1.35]
51 Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp [Version 3.7b1]
52 FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
++ FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp [Version 0.9.9beta2]
53 FCOM_RealSwords.esp [Version 0.9.9]
54 Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp [Version 3.7b3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Swarms.esp [Version 3.7b3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp [Version 3.7b3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Slimes.esp [Version 3.7b3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Werewolves.esp [Version 3.7b3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Beholdens.esp [Version 3.7b3]
55 Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp [Version 3.7b3]
56 Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp [Version 3.7b3]
57 Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
58 Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
59 Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3f]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp [Version 3.7b3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp [Version 3.7b3]
5A TamrielTravellers4000.esp [Version 1.36]
5B TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp [Version 1.36]
++ FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_Archery.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp
++ ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp [Version 2.01]
++ ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp [Version 1.35]
5C KDCircletsOOOOptimized - Loot Only.esp [Version 1.2]
5D OOO-WaterFish.esp [Version 1.34]
5E Suliin V1.2.esp
5F Castle Ravenpride.esp [Version 1.01]
60 Ivellon.esp [Version 1.8]
61 Akiviri Imports MOBS.esp
62 Syntyche's Cavern.esp
63 AkaviriSamuraiShop.esp
64 AranMathi.esp
65 ArboretumHouse.esp
66 Artifacts.esp
++ Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp [Version 1.0]
67 Basemant_chorrolhouse.esp
68 Better Benirus Manor.esp
69 Castle_Wolfspike.esp
6A Castle_Domrose_V1.2.esp
6B Castle_Highrock.esp
6C Castle_Veyond.esp
6D GTAesgaard.esp
6E GTAesgaard_2.esp
6F Gates To Aesgaard 2 Delayer.esp [Version 1.0]
70 Guardians of the Nine - Akatosh Chantry.esp
71 ImperialCityHouse.esp
72 JolardHome.esp
73 Kvatch Rebuilt.esp
74 Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp
75 KumikoManor.esp
76 Malevolent.esp
77 Pinevale.esp
78 Slof's Oblivion Goth Shop.esp
79 The Ayleid Steps.esp [Version 3.3]
7A TR_Stirk.esp
7B Stirk_Compatibility_Patch.esp
7C VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp
7D VHBloodlines 1.2.esp [Version 1.4]
7E Villages1.1.esp
7F Windfall.esp
80 za_bankmod.esp
81 Knights.esp
82 Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9]
83 Castle_Knightstone.esp
84 TOTF.esp
++ TOTF Delayer.esp
85 RTT.esp
86 The Lost Spires.esp
87 Blood&Mud.esp
88 The Mystery of the Dulan cult.esp
89 Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
8A FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_Knights.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
++ FCOM_Ruin.esp [Version 0.9.9]
8B FCOM_DulanCult.esp [Version 0.9.9]
8C Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp
++ FCOM_EnhancedDaedricInvasion.esp [Version 0.9.9]
8D ElsweyrAnequina.esp
8E Castle_Almgard-V2.esp
8F Castle_Seaview.esp
90 bartholm.esp
++ FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp [Version 0.9.9]
91 Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]
++ Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]
92 Bag of Holding.esp [Version 1.5.0]
93 DS Less Predictable Respawn.esp [Version 1.1]
94 DBWGP.esp [Version 1.13]
95 Retros Fletching and Imbueing.esp
96 Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp [Version 3.08]
97 RealisticFatigue.esp
98 RealSleepExtended.esp [Version 2.3.4]
99 Gather Ye Rosebuds.esp
++ More Soul Gems for Sale.esp
9A GW71_Soulgems.esp
9B bgMagicEV.esp [Version 1.7EV]
9C SupremeMagicka.esp [Version 0.89]
9D SM_ShiveringIsles.esp [Version 0.86]
++ SM_OOO.esp [Version 0.89]
++ SM_MMM.esp [Version 0.89]
++ SM_COBL.esp [Version 0.86]
++ SM_UnlockSpells.esp [Version 0.70]
++ SM_Scrolls.esp [Version 0.84]
++ SM_SigilStone.esp [Version 0.83]
9E attack and hide medium v2.1.esp
9F nGCD.esp
A0 ProgressMBSP.esp [Version 2.0]
A1 ProgressSBSP.esp [Version 1.0]
A2 ProgressRBSP.esp [Version 1.0]
A3 ProgressRacial.esp
A4 ProgressArmorer.esp [Version 1.0]
A5 immersive_caves_auto.esp
A6 Dark Dungeons - SI.esp
++ TFF_Races_Base.esp
A7 BP_Roberts_BR_Hair.esp
A8 CM Partners.esp
A9 CM Partners NPC.esp
AA CM Partners More NPCs NE.esp
AB CM Partners Extra NPCs.esp
AC CM Partners 20 Pack.esp
AD CM Kvatch Guards.esp
AE cm_help.esp
++ bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp [Version 1.68EV]
AF bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp [Version 1.68EV]
B0 Willful Resistance.esp [Version 4.0]
B1 Better Cities - Full City Defences.esp
B2 Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp
B3 Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.esp
B4 Better Cities - Tears of the Fiend.esp
B5 Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp
B6 Better Cities - VHBloodlines.esp
B7 Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp
B8 Better Cities Full - B&M Edition FPS Patch.esp
B9 Better Imperial City.esp
BA Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp
BB Better Cities - COBL.esp [Version 2]
++ [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp
BC Real Hunger, Cobl.esp [Version 1.6.1]
BD TuStartingOptions_01.esp
BE Bashed Patch, 0.esp
BF Streamline 3.1.esp

Here's what I plan to do:

1. Have Wrye Bash open so I can see the current load order of the mods.

2. Open TES4Gecko. Select Merge Plugins.

3. Select the mods that I want to merge.

Question: Do I set them all to 1 or do I set them in sequence (the first in the order is 1, the next 2, up to 27?)

4. Press okay.

5. I assume a new .esp will be created with all these mods in it. I will name it "UFF Armor and Clothing 1". I will list all twenty-seven mods in the new .esp so that I know I merged them.

6. I delete the 27 .esps from my Oblivion/Data folder. I have backups on an external drive.

7. Clean the new .esp with TES4edit. (I've already cleaned the existing .esps, but couldn't hurt, right?)

8. Open the BOSS MasterList and find UFF RM Ranger Armor (the last plugin I merged). Place the name of the .esp "UFF Armor and Clothing 1" in that place, so that Boss will sort it when I click it.

9. Test the mod by going to stores, places where the armor/clothing is.

Before I start clicking buttons, am I doing this right? My install is working now and I don't want to mess it up (but I just disocvered Unique Landscapes...)

Thanks for your help.

~ Dani ~

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:14 am

Open the merged mod in TES4EDIT and do a Chech for Errors, to see if some references has been given the wrong ID numbers. Ususally you only need to change the second digit to a zero to fix it. For example the Player character is 00000014, but Gecko often changes it to 01000014.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:38 pm

Everyone in this thread is a genius way beyond me. I thought having 30 mods was a wonder. All of the work you folks are going to, for a game, is really wonderful. I wish I had the patience to set something like this up. I think I'd just mail TomLong a hard drive and ask her to make me a copy of her Oblivion files

Wyre Bash made my head hurt. I was lucky to figure out OBMM!

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:31 pm

Hi,

Just sticking my nose in as you are looking to Free up slots AND mentioned random Crashes...\\

[GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp
[GFX]_Initial_Glow-self.esp

From the Readme that I have yours may be differant ?

There are 3 ESPs:
1) Initial_Glow-self: changes shaders that will appear on your character from positive permanent enchantments that you find on armour and stuff. Or thats the idea at least. Please test and let me know if ive missed any or modified an unnecessary one.
2) Initial_Glow-all: changes ALL shaders apart from speacial creature shaders (skeleton champs, atronachs, ghosts etc).
Choose 1 OR 2.
Optional:
3) Initial_Glow-creatures: as you might imagine, removes perma-glow from the shaders of the above-mentioned creatures.

From what i remembered using the Mod only one is needed Not Both Might want to look into that. As ALL would include you!
Just a thought.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:39 pm

Hi,

Just sticking my nose in as you are looking to Free up slots AND mentioned random Crashes...\\

[GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp
[GFX]_Initial_Glow-self.esp

From the Readme that I have yours may be differant ?

From what i remembered using the Mod only one is needed Not Both Might want to look into that. As ALL would include you!
Just a thought.

You are correct. That is fixed in my current install. See my previous post before this one.

Can someone tell me if I need to "number" the merged mods or do set them all to 1?

~ Dani ~

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:29 am

You are correct. That is fixed in my current install. See my previous post before this one.

Snip
~ Dani ~

Missed that new List..

I have never done what your attempting But watching, cause I know for a fact I will have to go down this Road in the near future!..

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:43 am

Yeah, I REALLY have to do it now. I just installed the Unique Landscapes OMOD and now I have 256 esps .... crap.

My grandmother used to say: "Necessity is the mother of invention."

~ Dani ~

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:24 pm

Yeah, I REALLY have to do it now. I just installed the Unique Landscapes OMOD and now I have 256 esps .... crap.

My grandmother used to say: "Necessity is the mother of invention."

~ Dani ~

LoL..You might want to Keep this thread For The Merging aspect and Start a new thread for Geting Windows playing Oblivion better.

That said....
1) What settings are you using For OSR?
2) IS windows X86 (32 Bit) OR X64 (64 Bit)
3) Latest Drivers for Video Card?

Things to Look Into for Stable Game..
56 Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp [Version 3.7b3] ......Not FOR FCOM
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp [Version 3.7b3]...Also Not for FCOM
5D OOO-WaterFish.esp [Version 1.34]....Use MMM instead

All the Above came From Core_PC verify in the MMM or FCOM threads!

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:54 pm

Question: Do I set them all to 1 or do I set them in sequence (the first in the order is 1, the next 2, up to 27?)
.
.
.
6. I delete the 27 .esps from my Oblivion/Data folder. I have backups on an external drive.

7. Clean the new .esp with TES4edit. (I've already cleaned the existing .esps, but couldn't hurt, right?)

8. Open the BOSS MasterList and find UFF RM Ranger Armor (the last plugin I merged). Place the name of the .esp "UFF Armor and Clothing 1" in that place, so that Boss will sort it when I click it.

9. Test the mod by going to stores, places where the armor/clothing is.

Thanks for your help.

~ Dani ~

There is a logic to priority of merging. I try and set the mods that would normally load later to have higher priority. Think of priority as being inverse to load order. A mod with a lower load order would have higher priority than a mod that load earlier.

Ideally you don't want to merge mods that conflict that much (and certainly not to mods that alter the same cell), but to be safe I try and do it that way and even, at times, go as far as to document in the mod description the priority of each in parenthesis. I also always put the mod names and version numbers as a list in the mod description.

Another resource for you: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/898653-a-guide-to-merging-with-tesivgecko/ and http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1068317-a-guide-to-merging-with-tesivgecko-second-thread/ The first one especially mod gurus Vorians and Arthmoor and a few others dispense some good wisdom there. Priority of mod mergers and what to and not merge are covered.

for 6 - back up those mods don't delete them - if you made a mistake you can have access to them to remerge.

for 7 - yep but also clean before merging too.

for 8 - or you can use http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29790 to customize your masterlist.

for 9 - yes test as much as you can and I'd recommend creating a separate save game profile and use saves that don't matter to you to do that testing. I even went so far as to test with other temporary characters and my main character. Especially considering that with a full load order you will have problems remembering which weapon/armor was added by what (and was that part of the merger or another mod like armamentarium). So Another profile with a vanilla load order is often best for testing first.

Even after extensive testing I recently discovered that a merger of two villages and two forts was causing massive instability in my game. That after all my testing and the mod thinking the mod safe to use. My advice on this is to focus on merging mods that you could live without if you needed to uninstall. Next focus on game tweaks and less on world space/cell space mods. Finally focus on mods that will not be updated again as you may want to update a mod that you merged but if it is merged to a quest or house that you live in - guess that would mean starting over.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:21 pm

Okay, I've done the merge. I numbered them all 1 since I saw no need to merge any one before another (and I hadn't yet see Psymon's post). In other words, they are all armor mods, adding armor to vendors or dungeons or somewhere in the game. [See TES4Gecko thread (see link above)]. I DID NOT select "Delete Last Master Record Conflict" because I loaded NO masters. I did select the "Edit Master Leveled List Conflicts."

I moved my .esps to safe backup directory until I can test.

I then cleaned the plugin with TES4 edit and found that it was clean - as it should have been.

Then I ran it through TES4edit again and this time selected check for errors after it finished. Nothing came up (literally, nothing) so I assume no errors. SEE BELOW: There may have been a problem.

Of course, my Bashed Patch is red now (here I'm wishing I'd saved one of the previous BOSS lists so I could check for Bashed Tags and so are all my saved games (I'm assuming because the references have changes). Since I don't want to guess, I'll leave it blank and rebuild my patch.

Now I'm off to test it.

And back immediately: crap, I didn't even think about this. When you mere the mods, the references change. It's only logical they would. So do I assume I have to start a new game out now? My character lost all her armor, weapons, anything that was part of the merge. So if you merge, you will lose your stuff because of the change in references? Or did I do something wrong? I used TES4edit to check for errors?

~ Dani ~

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:45 am

TES4Gecko updates the references within records (except for scripts.) If you mean RefIDs in the game, yes, those are kind of messed up. However, if IDs were not moved around too much, you could update the masterlist in Wrye Bash to have each of the individual masters point to the merged plugin. Also, you do not need to restart the game. This is like upgrading a mod. You should probably do a clean save first, as in, load the game without the merged plugin, and then add it in afterward. You lose your items because of changed Form IDs, not RefIDs. That is why I put all of that emphasis on merging on top of merged plugins, to avoid form ID changes when updating. I think I posted all about this earlier in this thread.

Edit: Reread my posts on the first page (or two.)

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:54 pm

TES4Gecko updates the references within records (except for scripts.) If you mean RefIDs in the game, yes, those are kind of messed up. However, if IDs were not moved around too much, you could update the masterlist in Wrye Bash to have each of the individual masters point to the merged plugin. Also, you do not need to restart the game. This is like upgrading a mod. You should probably do a clean save first, as in, load the game without the merged plugin, and then add it in afterward. You lose your items because of changed Form IDs, not RefIDs. That is why I put all of that emphasis on merging on top of merged plugins, to avoid form ID changes when updating. I think I posted all about this earlier in this thread.

Edit: Reread my posts on the first page (or two.)

To be honest, Tom, I don't really understand what all that means. I'm sorry you had to repeat yourself. Reading back through the thread, as you asked me to, I do see that Psymon warned me about this. You then suggested merging on top of merging and not to merge too many .esps at once. This was a few weeks and two finals ago (in my world anyway). Perhaps if I taken the time to make sure I understood what you meant at the time, your words might have stuck with me.

Let's see if I can sort this out:

RefIDs are the ids that the game generates to reference items in-game or in-world. Form IDs numeric references referred to by Oblivion and based upon that items number in a mod and the load order (example: items beginning with 00 always refer to Oblivion.esp because it's first). The FormIDs get messed up becasue I've now merged these mods and the load order is no longer the same. So the first two or three digits of the FormID would change based because the load order has changed. If I merge 27 mods, then the load order is radically different and these FormIDs are changed singificantly.

That's why you stated: "However, if IDs were not moved around too much, you could update the masterlist in Wrye Bash to have each of the individual masters point to the merged plugin." This is where my understanding breaks down. I assume yoiu mean the FormIDs and if they are not moved around too much, I can update something called the the masterlist in Wrye Bash (are you just referring to the list under the Mod tabs or is there another "masterlist" in Wrye Bash?) And what masters are we talking about? I'm merging armor and clothing plugins and the only "master" (in the masters window in Wrye Bash 2.8) is the Oblivion.esp.

I'm sorry, I'm completely lost here. So: if I merge, say three, UFF armor mods, all of which only have a master of Oblivion.esp, then go through the clean save process, then Wrye Bash will pick out the correct FormIDs, despite these IDs now being in a new merged file? But if I merge 27, it's too much and Wrye Bash can't figure it out?

And just to make sure we're talking about the same thing: I merge the mods, load a saved game, and my character who had already aquired a certain armor from one of the merged mods, no longer has it. Wrye Bash can fix this?

~ Dani ~

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:31 am

BOSS uses the "Masterlist" to sort your mods. Its located in the Data folder...Nice Loonnngggg list of mods..I edit mine when I want something in a different location in my load order.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:20 am

BOSS uses the "Masterlist" to sort your mods. Its located in the Data folder...Nice Loonnngggg list of mods..I edit mine when I want something in a different location in my load order.

This has nothing to do with the BOSS masterlist, and I do not think Bash has that sort of masterlist. The list am referring to is the list of masters for each plugin or save file. (You probably want to modify the save's master record in this case.) What I think Bash does: If you right-click in on a plugin in a plugin's masters list or a save files masters list and point that master record to a different plugin, Bash "updates" the formIDs with the prefix of the plugin to which you pointed. For example, say your save game used to depend on some armor mod loading in 0c, but now you have merged it into a merged plugin loading in position 1c. After having bash point to the 1c plugin instead of the 0c plugin, Bash would update the formIDs with the 1c prefix. The game has to do this automatically when you take mods or add mods to your load order.

RefIDs are not generated in the same way. The text file created with the "save 1" method contains RefIDs. Those must be linked with the formIDs by the game. The problem with merging plugins randomly has nothing to do with these IDs. The issue with merging is that it is not guaranteed that the formIDs within the merged plugin will be the same. Obviously, two records in different plugins can have the same six lower order digits. When you merge, one of the record's IDs has to change. My theory is that by merging on top, chances are that Gecko will retain the IDs of the highest priority plugin (the one with the lowest digit next to its name.) Therefore, if the merged plugin is always #1, adding to it should not mess up the formIDs in your game.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:04 pm

Dont mind me Im trying to learn also...I misread the "masterlist part" sorry..

But...so what your saying it would be easiest to Merge Plugins that have Never been in your Game?

Would Clean save remove the mods. then Merge then activate? remove all the problems?

Again sorry Im trying to get a handle on this also. And just the reading is making my head spin....lol

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:42 am

No problem. I do not know about "easy," but it is certainly cleanest to merge plugins that have never been in your game. It is also safest to do a clean save without the old version of the content (the separate plugins) installed beforehand (if moving merging existing content.) Likewise, it is safest to add mods to an existing game, as opposed to upgrading. That is why clean saves are required between the updrades of certain mods (i.e., BC required it after certain updates, a few leveling mods required clean saves after certain updates, etc.) Clean saving will take care of the old records. Once, I simply dropped the merged plugin into my load order without doing any cleaning, and I think I ended up with a few statics in my inventory, missing icons, no names and all. However, because the merged plugin was dropped into the same section (load order position) as one of the new item mods it had replaced, those items were still as they should have been. I have also used the redirection method to "update" my saves. Instead of hoping that those are the only things that got messed up, I suggest going the clean save route.

» Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:21 pm

.... The list am referring to is the list of masters for each plugin or save file. (You probably want to modify the save's master record in this case.) What I think Bash does: If you right-click in on a plugin in a plugin's masters list or a save files masters list and point that master record to a different plugin, Bash "updates" the formIDs with the prefix of the plugin to which you pointed. For example, say your save game used to depend on some armor mod loading in 0c, but now you have merged it into a merged plugin loading in position 1c. After having bash point to the 1c plugin instead of the 0c plugin, Bash would update the formIDs with the 1c prefix. The game has to do this automatically when you take mods or add mods to your load order.

RefIDs are not generated in the same way. The text file created with the "save 1" method contains RefIDs. Those must be linked with the formIDs by the game. The problem with merging plugins randomly has nothing to do with these IDs. The issue with merging is that it is not guaranteed that the formIDs within the merged plugin will be the same. Obviously, two records in different plugins can have the same six lower order digits. When you merge, one of the record's IDs has to change. My theory is that by merging on top, chances are that Gecko will retain the IDs of the highest priority plugin (the one with the lowest digit next to its name.) Therefore, if the merged plugin is always #1, adding to it should not mess up the formIDs in your game.

Now I get it ... sorry, there are too many "masters" in this kind of conversation. Masters for saves, got it.

Okay, so now, thinking logically, if you used the number sequence feature of TES4Gecko, you could preserve the order in which the mods are merged, right? So, say you have four mods, Mod 1, Mod 2, Mod 3, and Mod 4, all loading in that order (with Mod 1 being closest to the Oblivion.esm - on the Wrye Bash mod list - and Mod 4 being closed to the Bashed Patch). You merge them in that order by number them 1 to 4 in Gecko, in the sequence that they load (so you'd put a 1 on the box in front of Mod 1 and a 4 in front of the box in front of Mod 4). The lower numbers are merged first becasue Gecko gives them a higher priority. So 1 merges wtih 2 and then 1+2 merge with 3, and so on. Isn't this the same thing you're doing one by one?

Now, if you numbered them all sequentially, wouldn't you achieve the same effect (say 1 to 27 - which I did not do)? The only issue would be if there was an interruption in the sequence. Or am I still wrong?

I only have two interruptions in my sequence: I left out Adonnay's weapons becasue I know they have scripts and you said "Be careful of scripts." (See, I do read what you say). I also left off the TFF Armor and Clothing base.

Now if I could include those in this merge, that would give me 30 files merges in perfect order, if I numbered the first 1, the second 2, and so on until I reached 30.

Am I crazy?

~ Dani ~