How much non-Scandinavian style stuff will there be?

Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:35 am

What did medieval Scandinavian cities look like?
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Crystal Clear
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:14 am

There are pretty much no good viking-games out there :\.

But one of the reasons im extra hyped for Skyrim is indeed because it will be a lot influenced by our culture(and probably nature aswell).

Better have influence from our culture than generic mid-evil fantasy... OBLIVION, no need for coughs there.

Yes mid-evil fantasy is based on our culture too somewhat but its different, its generic and generic is bad.
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flora
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:01 am

By the danish OR the vikings? The danes were vikings too.
Danish Knut den Store(Canute), with help from the Norwegian Eirik Jarl, at that time the most skillfull strategist in the northern lands, did conquer England yes, all of what they at that time considered to be England in our tongue.

It is clearly visible in the north germanic languages that we are indeed from Germany, even i can understand parts of Frisian TODAY, just by the knowledge of my own tongue.
Same goes for the culture, there are plenty of things that bind the Germanic cultures together. That each germanian culture has diffrence, that is quite obvious, and we in Scandinavia managed to hold onto our culture longer then the others as we were further away from foreign influence. This is especially true for Iceland, mid,west and north-Norway and inland west-Sweden.

That they have been overused and sometimes adding things that have nothing to do with them(mostly the horns) i agree with. But the architecture and other things are mostly correct. As you would know if you had actually studied this. We use the same building style in Norway still today, both stavlaft and laft. Only out of the 3 building styles the viking use its grindbygg that is not used for houses anymore in Norway. But it is still used for eating-halls and various other things, aswell as recreation, a few recently put up in Romsdal by the viking organization there.
Woodcarving dragonstyle(called drageskurd) is also a old tradition in Norway, more common here then in Sweden and Denmark or Iceland, and still very much in use today, which i would know since im taking a course in it.

The biggest error hollywood and others do, when picturing vikings, is, apart from the horns, that they show us ONLY as warriors. And often too brutal or simply evil.
The movie Pathfinder is probably one of the best examples for that, piece of crap.
We were hardly any more barbaric or brutal then other people in Europe at the time. The diffrence is that the other Europeans, Charlemagne for instance, was christian, and the people who wrote the books were christians, we were not.
The barbaric view is mostly spewed out by christian monks in Britain. But the norse litterature dont do this.



You really don't get it do you?

Firstly Scandinavians are not from Germany because when they migrated to Scandinavia there was no Germany to come from. There was just a group of loosely affiliated tribes that we describe as Germanic due to there close set of genes. Scandinavians are Germanic yes but not German. That describes a completely different cultural type.

Secondly yes the styles that are represented in the moves and games do exist in Scandinavia but they do not necessarily come from there. due to the northern migration from Europe these styles exist all across Europe. Most importantly their cultural origin is from the Angles, Saxons and Germanic tribes. Not from Scandinavia.

Thirdly Knut never conquered all of England, just parts of northern England. The Breton and Saxon areas were far larger and developed their own cultural types independent of one another.

And yes i recognize that the Scandinavian literature paints a different view. Having studied archaeology for 5 years i would hope I'd have noticed that by now. Also horned helmets do exist. They just date to the Bronze age instead of the migration period.
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Chloe Yarnall
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:10 am

If everything was sized according to Daggerfall, Skyrim would be about the same size as Norway.
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Tarka
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:56 am

Kiwi, the most specific references to scandinavian/norse culture in TES is the use of norwegian WORDS in the previous games, a fact you seem hesitant to comment for some reason. Both NPC names, names of specific beasts, and groups of beasts are in norwegian. If the nord race and Skyrim isn't influenced at all by norse culture, then how do you explain the presence of norwegian language? Coincidence...?
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pinar
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:51 am

It hurts inside when I hear nords say Norwegian-inspired words with their American accents... like "udyrfrykte". :nope:
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Devin Sluis
 
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Post » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:29 pm

But the viking cliche is so old and dull. Barbaric is bleh.


Only because no one's done it really well unless its specifically dedicated to doing it right. And there haven't been many that do that. Hell I've yet to see anyone even bother with an exchange of insults, which IIRC, was common to the Norse.

The barbarian thing is just a matter of preference, so I'll leave it at that.

The biggest error hollywood and others do, when picturing vikings, is, apart from the horns, that they show us ONLY as warriors. And often too brutal or simply evil.
The movie Pathfinder is probably one of the best examples for that, piece of crap.
We were hardly any more barbaric or brutal then other people in Europe at the time. The diffrence is that the other Europeans, Charlemagne for instance, was christian, and the people who wrote the books were christians, we were not.
The barbaric view is mostly spewed out by christian monks in Britain. But the norse litterature dont do this.

This post has been edited by ArghoZ: Today, 01:52 PM


THIS, so hard. The Norse were incredibly intelligent, and especially intelligent were the warriors themselves. Again, IIRC, warriors were also poets, more or less.
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darnell waddington
 
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Post » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:24 pm

You really don't get it do you?

Firstly Scandinavians are not from Germany because when they migrated to Scandinavia there was no Germany to come from. There was just a group of loosely affiliated tribes that we describe as Germanic due to there close set of genes. Scandinavians are Germanic yes but not German. That describes a completely different cultural type.

Could be a language-missunderstanding. In my tongue we only use the term Germansk(Germanic) for Germanic things, such as our genes, the germanic tribes, the germanic language. But for modern germans and Germany we have a whole diffrent name for, namely Tysk, and Tyskland.

So we saying, we are 'germanere' is not the same as saying we are 'tyskere'(which are modern germans). The one is reffering to the germanic tribes from the region Germania, the other to the modern germans.
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priscillaaa
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:30 am

For weapons here are the basics we will see

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/customize/links/ymsgr7/*http://my.yahoo.com/

https://swords.com/buy/media/catalog/product/5/4/54-103_new_viking.jpg

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Viking_swords.jpg/156px-Viking_swords.jpg

http://www.karenleefield.com/blog/img/medieval/battle-axe.jpg

And for armor

http://images.doba.com/products/451/website_medieval_largepictures_22-230949.jpg

http://hjardar.no/viking3.jpg

http://www.elec-intro.com/EX/05-13-11/plate-armor.jpg

http://ii-prod-rw.marketlive.com/DesignToscano/images/products/en_us/detail/CL5999.jpg
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IsAiah AkA figgy
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:01 am

Kiwi, the most specific references to scandinavian/norse culture in TES is the use of norwegian WORDS in the previous games, a fact you seem hesitant to comment for some reason. Both NPC names, names of specific beasts, and groups of beasts are in norwegian. If the nord race and Skyrim isn't influenced at all by norse culture, then how do you explain the presence of norwegian language? Coincidence...?


I already made the point that the main focus point of the game High Hrothgar is actually a Old English name from an Anglo Saxon Poem about a Danish King (Angle Dane not Viking). Either way that doesn't matter because thats not what I've been trying to point out.
As i said just a few minutes ago:

''The point I'm trying to make is that the idea that barbarian style demonstrated in fantasy worlds is a viking thing is incorrect. Yes, they have much in common but they equally have just as much in common with other cultural types from Europe. Specificly art styles and architectural."
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[ becca ]
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:30 am

Lets not have Viking Viking Viking Scandinavian lore Scandinavian lore all the time, add some variety.
Down south could be an imperial encroachment and towns being under threat from Patriotic Skyrim locals, kind of like Goodsprings and the powder ganger's. to the north-east a Dunmer port. And keep all the Nordic stuff to the central area along with all the large cities.
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Cat Haines
 
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Post » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:11 pm

I already made the point that the main focus point of the game High Hrothgar is actually a Old English name from an Anglo Saxon Poem about a Danish King (Angle Dane not Viking). Either way that doesn't matter because thats not what I've been trying to point out.
As i said just a few minutes ago:

''The point I'm trying to make is that the idea that barbarian style demonstrated in fantasy worlds is a viking thing is incorrect. Yes, they have much in common but they equally have just as much in common with other cultural types from Europe. Specificly art styles and architectural."



I wasn't referring to TES V, I was referring to previous games, Morrowind and Oblivion. The nord culture isn't introduced to Tamriel in TES V, it already exists, so obviously the things we've seen in previous games will give a good indication of the nord culture. Several of the names in the previous games aren't just "norwegian-inspired", they are current norwegian words, in everyday use in Norway today. There is absolutely no doubt that Skjorta and Udyrfrykte comes from norwegian, and those are just two off the top of my head. Same goes for the draugr, although that's more mythical. Those names have nothing in common with saxon culture, there is only one possible place of origin - scandinavia.
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Shae Munro
 
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Post » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:18 pm

I seriously doubt the devs would want to make a whole province look like bigger Solstheim with Bruma-like cities. I think it's safe to say there will be a fair share of odity in the game.
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Mario Alcantar
 
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Post » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:05 pm

Another thing that annoys me, is the looks of nords in TES. In Oblivion they were quite ugly(both men and women). In fact we are quite goodlooking, both men and women.


Just for the record, that's a result of the FaceGen, and pretty much all of the races suffered from looking like a bunch of freaky meatsacks.
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Elea Rossi
 
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Post » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:05 pm

Well, seeing how I'm in love with all things Scandinavian, I couldn't be more thrilled. I hope this game has a week of midnight sun and a week of polar night.
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pinar
 
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Post » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:32 pm

So what do ancient Scandinavian cities look like?
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Jeff Tingler
 
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Post » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:00 pm

So what do ancient Scandinavian cities look like?

Think Skaal Village. Also, funfact: Skaal is a old Norse word spoken spoken when making a toast and drinking.
Skaal!
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R.I.P
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:23 am

Secondly yes the styles that are represented in the moves and games do exist in Scandinavia but they do not necessarily come from there. due to the northern migration from Europe these styles exist all across Europe. Most importantly their cultural origin is from the Angles, Saxons and Germanic tribes. Not from Scandinavia.

Thirdly Knut never conquered all of England.

Yes he did. And there was hardly any immigration into scandinavia during 500-1100. There was however, alot of migration out of Scandinavia, especially from Norway and Denmark who settled down in Northumbria and Dublin especially, but also a lot of other places there. Not to mention Gardariket in the east.

And yes i recognize that the Scandinavian literature paints a different view. Having studied archaeology for 5 years i would hope I'd have noticed that by now. Also horned helmets do exist. They just date to the Bronze age instead of the migration period.


Yes, one such helmet for ritual use do exist in Denmark, from the bronze age, suspected to be of celtic orgin.

Any sensible person who gives the horned-helmet topic some thought know that charging into battle with horns on your head would be idiotic tactical-wise, as the horns would hook the weapons and increase the blow to ur head, rather then make the weapon slide off. And even if people like to think of vikings as simple, low-iq barbarians, they were far from it, they were one of the best ones at what they did. Even to this day, a modern sailboat cant beat a vikingboat in good conditions.
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Davorah Katz
 
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Post » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:34 pm

I wasn't referring to TES V, I was referring to previous games, Morrowind and Oblivion. The nord culture isn't introduced to Tamriel in TES V, it already exists, so obviously the things we've seen in previous games will give a good indication of the nord culture. Several of the names in the previous games aren't just "norwegian-inspired", they are current norwegian words, in everyday use in Norway today. There is absolutely no doubt that Skjorta and Udyrfrykte comes from norwegian, and those are just two off the top of my head. Same goes for the draugr, although that's more mythical. Those names have nothing in common with saxon culture, there is only one possible place of origin - scandinavia.


Did you only read half of what i just said? My point was simply that the classical barbarian style used by Hollywood in movies and now in games is not representative of Scandinavia alone but the entire 'barbarian' culture of Europe including vikings, angles, Saxons, Germanic tribes, gaulic tribes, Celtic tribes and so on. It was not focused on TES lore. it was talking about the 'barbarian' image in general.
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Dan Endacott
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:27 am

Think Skaal Village. Also, funfact: Skaal is a old Norse word spoken spoken when making a toast and drinking.
Skaal!


But... It's just a bunch of basic wooden huts...
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Curveballs On Phoenix
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:36 am

Think Skaal Village. Also, funfact: Skaal is a old Norse word spoken spoken when making a toast and drinking.
Skaal!

True. But we write it like this in modern norwegian: "Sk?l!". :D
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jaideep singh
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:15 am

@ Kiwi:

I definitely read what you posted, this is the original post with your original point:

"All the details about the setting so far have not shown anything Scandinavian or viking related"

As I've shown, there are plenty of scandinavian-related sides to Nord culture, so that argument is obviously not valid.

The point you are now trying to make - that Skyrim/the Nords aren't based solely on scandinavian culture - is a moot point. Noone has made that claim. Even the title indicate this. We are only saying that norse culture to some extent HAS influenced the Nord culture, and that this influence most likely will be pretty visible in the game.

@Arghoz: Yep, looks like it. ;) Don't know how tolerant the mods are about non-english language in here, tho...
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Eibe Novy
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:57 am

But... It's just a bunch of basic wooden huts...

Well what did you expect, huge concrete buildings? They're saving those for the futuristic TES game called Skyscraqerrim. Nah, on a serious note, I'm sure Bethesda isn't completely influenced by real world architecture, I'm sure we'll get some variation.
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Chris Cross Cabaret Man
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:56 am

So what do ancient Scandinavian cities look like?


http://www.irishhistorylinks.net/History_Links/VikingDublinCastle.jpg

(Dublin)
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Pete Schmitzer
 
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Post » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:25 am

Liker nynorsk, men kan det ikke godt nok til ? bruke det til vanlig. :P
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RUby DIaz
 
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