In prior Bethesda games, all the difficulty setting did was set a multiplier on damage; which quickly goes from having to be a little smarter in combat to just every enemy turning into a damage sponge that can kill you in a few seconds. I've never really seen Bethesda's difficulty options praised. So, two questions: What would you like to see the difficulty options control to add more/less challenge to the game? And what do you think Bethesda will actually do with difficulty settings in 4?

(to be clear, this thread isn't about features they could add with a "hardcoe" mode; I'm more curious about what broad variables they could let us tweak for difficulty. I'm not a fan of difficulty modes that add/remove entire features.)

More Factors such as how fast environmental stuff happens, like Rad increases. More Increased limb Damage, more jump damage, A lack of Fast Travel, etc.

It isn't a matter of BGS difficulty mechanics. It's the industry as a whole because the mechanic BGS uses is the same in almost any game regardless of where in the world it is made.

The one major exception I know of is Halo. Bungie made difficulty based on enemy party composition, not health and damage given/taken.Or rather the health an damage given/taken varied due to the stronger enemy party composition at higher difficulty not because of a simple multiplier. This is how difficulty should always work but I doubt that we'll see it become a new standard since Halo is fairly old now. What's really silly is that Halo proved that this is a very popular way to manage difficulty and Halo has been very successful partly because of this method, yet other companies haven't adopted it.

At least BGS includes an experience multiplier that's tied to difficulty along with the health and damage given/taken multiplier.

Actually, the percentage slider in earlier games like Morrowind and Oblivion worked much better than the five fixed settings because the slider allowed players to fine tune the difficulty even if it was only damage given/taken. Bringing that method back would be better than what we have in the newer games.

Ideally, BGS and other developers would adopt Bungie's approach with the original Halo and make difficulty based on enemy party composition. That would automatically handle damage given/taken as well as experience awarded. It's more work, but it works far better. I won't hold out any hope that it will happen due to the long time that it could have but hasn't, though.

I guess one other example would be Silent Hill where higher difficulty didn't just make enemies stronger but also made puzzles much more difficult. I still didn't like the simple damage sponge for enemies, although the puzzle variation was great. It's another approach that would be better than what we have right now, at least.

Off the top of my head:

* The first level above default would add more spawn points.

* Each additional level above default would add more enemies per spawn point.

* Each level above default would add damage percentages to both player character and enemies.

I don't think a difficulty slider should add smarter AI at higher levels (a common suggestion many people make). I think smarter AI should be part of the game at all levels.

Personally, I would like to see a very dynamic difficulty that includes the option for bullet sponging but does end there. The presence of crosshairs, ammo loot types/multiples, weapon sway multiple, weapon/armor degradation, AP generation rates, crippling injuries, optional Radaway, encumbrance value and both movement and AP impediments that are all dynamically set for each character would allow you to tailor a game from "Cinematic leap through the skylight in VATS, shooting multiple enemies in an orgy of blood and bullets" to "I better be careful, there is a raider in the next room and he's as likely to kill me as I am him" modes.

I agree with you about the AI being smarter in the first place, but that ties into the game's design as a whole. For me, the game should be designed to be challenging in the first place; a difficulty slider can't really compensate for level design, or how quests are written. And I'm not sure it should change what enemies can do, and what tactics they can employ. To that end, I'm not sure about difficulty affecting enemy spawns, either; that would work for a straight shooter, but it has other implications for stealth, XP rewards, and just general plausibility of the game world. Plus, it would make changing the difficulty on the fly awkward.

I also don't think a game setting should impose anything the players can just impose on themselves, like a no-fast-travel rule. But things like how much damage we inflict, or how effective consumables are, we can't really impose on ourselves without a game setting to choose from.

Hmm. One could have a better AI in general, and still "improve" it at higher difficulties. Or at least improve some of the enemies capabilities within that AI - don't just give them more HP/damage, but up their perception, improve coordination between members of groups, etc. (Hmm. Giving them a better mix of equipment - backup weapons, more & more variety of consumables, etc - is a two-edged sword in Beth-style "loot everything" games. Since everything you give them, the player can get their hands on.)

Of course, that's a heck of a lot harder than "Moar HP!"

(that said, I've always played these games - and 90% of the other ones I play - on Normal. I'd still like to see a better difficulty system, if only to improve things for other players and/or reduce the amount of "OMG, gaem so E-Z!" whining when it comes out..... on the other hand,different games have different goals. Beth games aren't Dark Souls, and aren't meant to be. Anyone looking for that is going to be disappointed, regardless of diff settings.)

I wish incoming-outgoing dmg could be done separately, honestly. It feels silly to have to shoot an unarmoured NPC multiple times in the head -- to give him a concussion. And if I play on lower difficulties so the shots count, then I have an inventory full of drugs and healing items I never need to use.

I want the player to feel frail, so I have to think about how I handle encounters - weaving, taking cover. But I want the enemy to be frail, too. Otherwise what's the point?

As far as AI goes, I know that real-life combat tactics clearly have no place in Fallout. There is no purpose to covering fire, or scattering enemies with a grenade - because in the first case they don't even care if they get hit, and in the second they'll keep shooting while they strafe. Making covering fire only detremental, and grenades only effective in closed quarters. (I only use grenade rifles now, at least they detonate right away.)

knowing bethesda if set at highest difficulty any simple low level raideer will instantly kill your character with a plastic spoon in xase of melee weapons , for other weapons he properly just have to fart in your direction and your dead

alaways hated that i really hope they did something more original this time

but wait and see

The things FWE introduced were fairly interesting, I think. With a decent gun, you could two-shot any standard enemy (critters, raiders, standard muties) - but so could they. That forced the player to assess a situation, come up with a plan (even an improvised one) or avoid the engagement.

That, and the fact that radiation was way more intense (4-6 rads/min at least and don't ask about the river...).

So, basically increasing damage dealt and taken would make combat more unforgiving.

You will use the best AI you have, note also that having variable AI would make testing much harder.

Using enemy level as an offset might be an idea as it would both increase damage given and taken but also skills so enemies might be better at detecting sneaking and and shooting better, merchants would have higher skill so exchange rates would be worse.

I prefer an more fast paces and lethal game-play so my solution is to keep health low.

Yeah, rereading what I wrote, I realize that I wasn't as clear as I could have been:

"Of course, that's a heck of a lot harder to program than 'Moar HP!' " is what I meant.

I hate the idea of higher difficulty mainly resorting to higher enemy HP and damage. I hope they can actually increase difficulty without that. I wanna keep the stats balanced and as they should be.

AI can be imporoved with difficulty

i know grunts in halo turn into tactician flank wizards on legendary... but i'd rather the AI in fo4 stay the same on all settings, difficult but manageable

the thing i've wanted in difficulty forever is a +damage deal/recieve on BOTH sides, like making it feel more visceral and real

ex. a raider on higher difficulties can cut you down exrtemely easy with weak guns if you arent careful, but the same goes for them, even boss level foes, so they dont feel like bullet sponges that just get helath buffs for difficulty levels

there was a skyrim overhaul that had this feature and i loved what i got to play with it

i think it was skyre's combat module

lol +1

Another way to add difficulty is complamentary enemy types like having archers/snipers with close up brawlers. or buffer and debuffers with medium range attackers that use close up and range weapons. Basicly keep the player off balance and not allow them much breathing room