How much do you expect from mods? : V - Skyrim

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:21 pm

Those aren't mods so much as they are a few, simple, community-provided tools for messing with some of the game files. Any other Arena/Daggerfall player could tell you the same thing as I will. They have little relation to the playing of either game. We don't even discuss mods much (with the exception of the occasional DaggerXL update) in the past games section. Any PC game can have such limited, non-developer-supported tools. Both game's flaws and strengths are pretty much set for any serious Arena/Daggerfall player.

Arena/Daggerfall existed at a time where the popular extent of "modding" were character editors. It was simply the way things were - Might and Magic, TES, most any RPG at the time was limited to a share of character and save editors. Modding wasn't a well known subject, its that simple.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:04 pm

I find it funny that almost every single thread that somebody opens about adding a element to to the game there's always some people saying: " Somebody will do a mod for this...",
"This can be fixed with mods..". Its quite ridiculous in my opinion that its always expected that the mod community will solve the problems. Its like you don't believe the game will go beyond a certain point and after that its up to the modders to create the rest.

I have all respect for the modders and i love their work, but there are many things that cannot be fixed by modding simply because they were game design decisions.
Is it really right to expect to have the modders do that work all the time?

A lot of those things that can be fixed/added with mods are fringe things that only a small subset of players care about, mods are about tailoring the game to how I want it to be and how I want it is different than everyone else wants it.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:37 pm

Todd himself raved about the extensive modding community that Bethesda caters to in an E3 interview - I don't believe he expects the community to pick up the slack, be he certainly considers them a major part of the game. The early PC games didn't exist during a time where modding was a popular or reasonable feature.

DOOM

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:52 pm

Those aren't mods so much as they are a few, simple, community-provided tools for messing with some of the game files.

Define "mod".

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:26 pm

It's part of the package, but still an extra feature. The game does not ship with installed mods. The game is not officially a modded one. Mods are not officially recognized as part of the series' canon. Mods are not for the majority of modern Elder Scrolls platforms. Mods are, strangely enough, not even supported by the only PC-exclusive Elder Scrolls games (the first two). Yes, people rightfully love them, yes, the series now supports it and yes, it's a rather neat feature that has its impact on the series, but it is not actually a huge part of the series itself. It's not that I don't necessarily not love the idea or anything such as that simply so much as it is that I believe something that isn't in half of the series, is limited to only one of three platforms, is completely optional for those of that third, and is strictly unofficial cannot be considered an actual part of the series. Mods are, by their very nature, unofficial, third-party applications.

Mods one help sell the PC version which puts more money back to bethesda because they get to keep a higher % of the revenue vs console sales.

Two it's amazing way to find out what a community wants ---looks at the most downloaded mods list.

Three you have 100,000 + modders making idea's....and you can pull on those idea's as well.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:09 pm

This is half the fun for me. And the reason why one should always play through the vanilla game once or twice without any game-changing mods first.

I am really glad that I did not play through Oblivion once or twice before installing OBGEv2, ENBSeries shaders, QTP3, Tamriel NPCs Revamped, FCOM, Duke Patricks, etc.; otherwise, I would have spent 800+ hours playing a game that needed some major fixing.

I played a few hundred hours of my first playthrough with some mods like Vampire Aging Disabled, HGEC, QTP3. Then I retired that character and started a new game (my 2nd playthrough) with 150+ mods about 6 months ago. I am up around 300+ hours on that playthrough and barely at level 7.

In my experience, I can't just do a "quick runthrough" of TES games. Each playthrough lasts several hundred hours. This is way too long to spend playing a game with some problems that can easily be fixed.

» Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:20 am

I am really glad that I did not play through Oblivion once or twice before installing OBGEv2, ENBSeries shaders, QTP3, Tamriel NPCs Revamped, FCOM, Duke Patricks, etc.; otherwise, I would have spent 800+ hours playing a game that needed some major fixing.

I played a few hundred hours of my first playthrough with some mods like Vampire Aging Disabled, HGEC, QTP3. Then I retired that character and started a new game (my 2nd playthrough) with 150+ mods about 6 months ago. I am up around 300+ hours on that playthrough and barely at level 7.

In my experience, I can't just do a "quick runthrough" of TES games. Each playthrough lasts several hundred hours. This is way too long to spend playing a game with some problems that can easily be fixed.

Exactly why im waiting to play it after release; after all i'll have BF3, RO2, the witcher 2 and a few others to keep my comfy.

Then blammo mod time

AND HOPEFULLY by then they'll have a mount and blade combat mod.

» Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:18 am

Exactly why im waiting to play it after release; after all i'll have BF3, RO2, the witcher 2 and a few others to keep my comfy.

Then blammo mod time

AND HOPEFULLY by then they'll have a mount and blade combat mod.

Wow, you have a lot more willpower than me.

how long do you plan to wait?

I will barely be able to wait from 12:00am to 12:01am on 11/11/11

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:43 pm

Not all the games are like this.

But TES games after Morrowind, have unbelievable potential for mod-ability, and I have not seen any other game that could be modded to this extend.

And I would say, you can expect almost anything from the mods, and the brilliant TES modders have an uncanny talent to bypass the engine limits to achieve results that could not be imagined before.

And do not forget the "Script Extender" team that can add wonderful capabilities to the core game engine.

The possibilities are almost limitless.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:49 am

Not all the games are like this.

But TES games after Morrowind, have unbelievable potential for mod-ability, and I have not seen any other game that could be modded to this extend.

And I would say, you can expect almost anything from the mods, and the brilliant TES modders have an uncanny talent to bypass the engine limits to achieve results that could not be imagined before.

And do not forget the "Script Extender" team that can add wonderful capabilities to the core game engine.

The possibilities are almost limitless.

The only modding community i've seen surpass TES's is the Sim City 4 community. Its amazing what a few unpaid think tanks can do to improve a game's playability.

» Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:51 am

I find it funny that almost every single thread that somebody opens about adding a element to to the game there's always some people saying: " Somebody will do a mod for this...",
"This can be fixed with mods..". Its quite ridiculous in my opinion that its always expected that the mod community will solve the problems. Its like you don't believe the game will go beyond a certain point and after that its up to the modders to create the rest.

I have all respect for the modders and i love their work, but there are many things that cannot be fixed by modding simply because they were game design decisions.
Is it really right to expect to have the modders do that work all the time?

There's flamebait towards Bethesda or the hard working community somewhere here... I just can't pinpoint where.

The mod community DOES solve problems and has done so from Daggerfall to Oblivion. Bethesda's hired more than just a few modders over the years because they know it too. The TES community is one of the most productive in all of PC Gaming.

As for people believing the game will only go so far; I think that's because many of us old timers have been playing TES games for a decade. We know Bethesda and we know their design philosophy.

They've been saying for months now that they're streamlining Skyrim for console accessibility; so modders are already re-familiarizing themselves with the TESCS to get ready for The Creation Kit.

And finally, I'd like to know what in the last TES games you didn't like that a modder couldn't, or didn't change; so that we can start cracking on it in Skyrim.

No... seriously.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:22 pm

Not all the games are like this.

But TES games after Morrowind, have unbelievable potential for mod-ability, and I have not seen any other game that could be modded to this extend.

And I would say, you can expect almost anything from the mods, and the brilliant TES modders have an uncanny talent to bypass the engine limits to achieve results that could not be imagined before.

And do not forget the "Script Extender" team that can add wonderful capabilities to the core game engine.

The possibilities are almost limitless.

Quake was a modders funpark as well many diverse mods for that as well

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:21 pm

Well..... because an experienced modder can add anything they wanted. I have faith vanilla Skyrim will be incredible. Mods will be their to just make it prettier.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:05 am

I play the game all the way through vanilla. I keep note of all the things that bugged me during the playthrough, then find the mods for my next playthrough.

» Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:29 am

In my experience, I can't just do a "quick runthrough" of TES games. Each playthrough lasts several hundred hours. This is way too long to spend playing a game with some problems that can easily be fixed.

If you jump right into the game with all of those mods, you aren't able to really appreciate what they do to the game. You aren't wasting all of those hours if the game is still fun, and once the mods are out you're able to enjoy what is basically a brand new game. It's two games for the price of one.

I have no issue with using graphics mods like OBGE or QTP right out of the gate, because they don't change how the game plays.

FCOM does not exactly fix easy problems.

I will barely be able to wait from 12:00am to 12:01am on 11/11/11

That's...a little hypocritical don't you think? If it has flaws, are you going to drop it immediately and wait for mods? Aren't you cheating yourself out of fun by doing so?

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:03 pm

Given the crazy stuff people have modded into Oblivion? I honestly wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point. Whatever you can think of, it'll happen... eventually. (even if you'd rather it didn't. But, luckily, mods are optional. Just because someone makes a mod for, oh, playable anthropomorphic platypus children, doesn't mean you have to use it.

)

Well, some problems could not be fixed in Oblivion, nobody has been able to make hair who conformed to the character, like hair down you back who stayed at the back then you looked around, yes it has been solved for wigs you put on as an helmet.

Not able to add visible equipment slots, yes it’s a mod who let you carry unlimited rings and amulets but they are not visible.

Lots of minor things who is too hard to fix and not enough interest to fix.

» Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:11 am

With everybody saying that PC is better than Consoles, I Expect A FRIGGIN LOT from the modding comunity.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:09 pm

Quake was a modders funpark as well many diverse mods for that as well

Yes, I modded it too.

But the content and game-play mechanisms that you can alter, tweak or create here in TES series is unmatched by any game that I have seen till now.

Fallout3 and the next one are part of the family of-course.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:35 pm

It's part of the package, but still an extra feature. The game does not ship with installed mods. The game is not officially a modded one. Mods are not officially recognized as part of the series' canon. Mods are not for the majority of modern Elder Scrolls platforms. Mods are, strangely enough, not even supported by the only PC-exclusive Elder Scrolls games (the first two). Yes, people rightfully love them, yes, the series now supports it and yes, it's a rather neat feature that has its impact on the series, but it is not actually a huge part of the series itself. It's not that I don't necessarily not love the idea or anything such as that simply so much as it is that I believe something that isn't in half of the series, is limited to only one of three platforms, is completely optional for those of that third, and is strictly unofficial cannot be considered an actual part of the series. Mods are, by their very nature, unofficial, third-party applications.

Anyone who doesn't think that mods made a huge impact on TES is either REALLY envious of those who have a gaming PC or really doesn't know a thing about the series. Look at the top 25 mods in oblivion. Look at the changes that made it into Skyrim. You'll see a lot of similarities. Oh, and there's also a construction kit that comes with the game now. If that isn't a prod by the developers to develop fan-made mods, I don't know what is. And they wouldn't do that unless they realized that the fan community has some STELLAR ideas that would be completely free to implement into future TES games.

Don't kid yourself. The Elder Scrolls is becoming a game that is developed by developers, and fans. And its a damn [censored] beautiful thing.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:51 pm

Anyone who doesn't think that mods made a huge impact on TES is either REALLY envious of those who have a gaming PC or really doesn't know a thing about the series. Look at the top 25 mods in oblivion. Look at the changes that made it into Skyrim. You'll see a lot of similarities. Oh, and there's also a construction kit that comes with the game now. If that isn't a prod by the developers to develop fan-made mods, I don't know what is. And they wouldn't do that unless they realized that the fan community has some STELLAR ideas that would be completely free to implement into future TES games.

Don't kid yourself. The Elder Scrolls is becoming a game that is developed by developers, and fans. And its a damn [censored] beautiful thing.

Did you even read my post?

It's part of the package, but still an extra feature. The game does not ship with installed mods. The game is not officially a modded one. Mods are not officially recognized as part of the series' canon. Mods are not for the majority of modern Elder Scrolls platforms. Mods are, strangely enough, not even supported by the only PC-exclusive Elder Scrolls games (the first two). Yes, people rightfully love them, yes, the series now supports it and yes, it's a rather neat feature that has its impact on the series, but it is not actually a huge part of the series itself. It's not that I don't necessarily not love the idea or anything such as that simply so much as it is that I believe something that isn't in half of the series, is limited to only one of three platforms, is completely optional for those of that third, and is strictly unofficial cannot be considered an actual part of the series. Mods are, by their very nature, unofficial, third-party applications.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:52 pm

Did you even read my post?

Need clarification? I'm arguing that it IS a huge part of the series, and will continue to be so in the future.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:42 pm

Need clarification? I'm arguing that it IS a huge part of the series, and will continue to be so in the future.

All you argued was that it had its impact on the series and is supported by the developers. I specifically stated that was the case. However, mods are just that... modifications. They literally are not a part of the series, they are third-party modifications to the series.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:33 pm

Mods are great yes, but they shouldnt be required to play the game. I read a comment in a thread the other day saying something about no one is going to be playing these games 5 years later without mods. I played morrowind on XBOX about a week ago, thats been what 9 years? I get new ideas for character and class names and backgrounds that i can RP with. I especially love starting on hardest difficulty from the very beginning. And Oblivion, I played that yesterday on xbox. I also clocked about 40 Hours into Daggerfall so far, which I got from Bethesda about a month ago.

» Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:14 am

Let's hope that Todd Howard can introduce the mods to consoles, and then see what those people say about it's being a huge part of the series or not.

After Oblivion, for me, this was the main reason that I continued playing the game, and I already know what I want to tweak in Skyrim, and counting on that notion.

They do really extend the life span of the games tenfold for some players.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:31 pm

Sorry, double post.