..that New Vegas is THIS good? I mean, seriously, Obsidian is known for buggy incomplete games (that I still love) and they used a known buggy engine to develop New Vegas. They had just shy of two years development time, and they absolutely knocked it out of the park! I'd already played and beaten NV when it first came out, but made the mistake of not really taking my time with it. So now, on my second play through, i'm really taking my time to talk to people, and see what's going on in the world. I spent an hours last night playing just talking to NCR troopers at Camp McCarren. That's not even doing quests, just talking to them. The world is huge, factions and locations well defined, and every possible good thing about F3 is made much better here, while bringing back the wit and storytelling prowess of the 1st two Fallout games.

Is there anyone else out there as gob-smacked as I am about how deep, huge, and seriously awesome this game is, given the relatively short development cycle?

I did the same. My first play was just me rushing through, getting a jist of things and seeing how the story panned out. I started a second play and took my time, talking and exploring. It's amazing what you find when you leave quests and alone for a while and explore. It is a good experience when you explore and when you speak to people about their experiences. In most games, I'd sweat at the thought of someone sitting me down and telling his/her life story. Not on New Vegas.

After the first playthrough it gets predictable with combat.
After the second it becomes really predictable.
After the third, if you look up the definition of predictable you can see New Vegas boxart next to the word.

You'll see it's faults after awhile too.

@ Gab: It's still fun though.

Nine playthroughs... four finished.

oh god I have work to do.

Predictable? Explain what you mean?

And I know what it means, but I want your perspective of what predictable means to you in terms of New Vegas playthroughs.

Gameworld.
I take a left turn and I know that behind that hill is a bunch of Gecko's, I know that they're not fire or normal one's, I know that they are golden and I know that there are 5 of them, two large and three smaller ones.

Random encounters and stuff like that is completely thrown out the window in this game from what I've seen. (Or maybe it's just my copy of the game...)
And since it is like this I know which areas to avoid and which to enter and I know what strategy to use at them as well.
And humans? They all use crap weapons, the only one's that are of any challenge is BOS, which are locked away at the same spot all the time, Elit Legionnaires, which only show up by the end, and Desert Rangers which only shows up at certain NCR camps.

Predictable.

Agreed in some respects; in F3 I felt that it was a bit more randomised and anything could happen out in the wastes but in NV I can go from Goodsprings to the Strip knowing exactly where I'm going to get ambushed and where I can find good gear.

Theres no randomisation...

@gabriel77dan

I understand what you mean now, and it's true. But I suppose if you were like me or the OP, I explored new places through my second playthrough, so I have different encounters and quests at these new places. Apart from that it was predictable. But by exploring I got a taste of some minor quests/side quests I never located before.

Yup, but I remember in FO2 when I had to travel to and from Vault City, I was always like "pleasenokraziespleasenokraziespleasenokrazies!!!" cause I feared the ghoul krazies.
And sometimes I got screwed, sometimes I got lucky, sometimes I just high-tailed it outta there.
But it was still a form of random, sure it got predictable as well after a while but it could still surprise you.
So New Vegas, I've been to just about every area and I think I know them fairly well with what enemies and what their numbers are so for me NV is kinda dead.
Hope that they fix it in patches or DLC's and give us "some" kind of random or leveled encounters.

Am not sure that 'predictable' is the right word. Sure, enemies respawn at set places, but that's to be expected, right? Unless the terrain changes each time you play it, things will forever be in the same place. I think the where New Vegas really shines is the replayability in quest terms, specifically siding with a new faction each time. This is what I intend to do, exploring new quests each time.

I'm in the process of doing that now. I've sided with House and Legion so far. I intend to go with NCR and Yes Man next. Each one gives you a different perspective of their plans for the dam which is something good I suppose.

Fallout 1 and 2 had random encounters when traveling, IIRC Tactics did as well, and FO3 had it's own kind of random encounters which were a little toned down but they could still be random.
So for me predictable is the precise word.

I don't need Borderlands intended design yknow, but what I do want is to not fully know what is over the hill, for there to be some element of surprise.
That one time I might see a bunch of bark radscorpions but when I return there at level 30 I "might" encounter cazadors. (This does not mean that cazadors will always be there at lvl 30, it just means that at lvl 30 there is a higher % chance of them spawning at that area.)

You COULD spend hours and hours talking to everybody and activating every little sub-quest, but after awhile you realize 95% of the 'quests' are simple fetch quests or 'talk to this person,'

Not too much fun zipping around the map, staring at load screens, and walking all over a town for one or two lines of dialogue.

So I would have to say I am NOT impressed with the game design.

One of the things that could have fixed it is if the east freeside gate map marker took us "inside" the gate instead of "outside", and one at Atomic Wrangler, one at Followers, one at each Strip part as well.
Could have made it less frustrating.

Fetch quest are common in Fallout, it was just Fallout 3 who was used the idea of. kill this man or kill them all quest

Fetch quest FTW

Don't most quests in just about every RPG come down to killing or fetching stuff?
Some can be completed through dialogue but you still fetch the dialogue. :shrug:
Anyway, shouldn't go too offtopic about this negative stuff though, we have a disappointment thread for that.

So, ontopic: ...It's the best out of a bad situation. (Map node system, more skills, better SPECIAL, better difficulty curve and get rid of the "everyone must have a talking head screen" crap and I might call the next game a truly great Fallout game.)

Some quests on NV though are pretty much: "Go there, come back".

I share your sentiments OP... FNV is an excellent game.

Tips for those getting bored with the game... explore the things you havent done yet... might sound obvious but if you've never gambled or played cards, try it... never looked at the crafting/cooking system... do only that and dont even buy food.

Ive done 2 playthroughs and not been in 3 of the 4 main casinos yet... I plan to snoop around them sometime.

Except Fallout 3, Oblivion, Mass Effect 2, and most of the RPG nowadays

thats a sad thing

Its fault is not enough combat. Everything seems to have been done already:



*Completely MY OPINIONS*
Now before you say: "this isn't fallout 3, boo bethesda you svckz, and what ever"... yes your right, this isn't Fallout 3, its New Vegas. Combat was a fault *IMO*

This was just a remark to what gabriel77dan, when he said combat became predictable, very, after three playthroughs. When I think of the word "playthrough" in terms of New Vegas, I think of the word "none".

Now many people may not like tons of combat and skirmishes popping up like in FO3, but both are completely different 'worlds'. And I like the world of FO3 better.

ON TOPIC: Yeah it is a great game, glad you enjoyed it! :goodjob:

Oh I don't mind the "amount" of combat in New Vegas either, I think it's fine with having everything spread out a lot more.
It's just that if I go north of Goodsprings then there'll be cazadors there and they'll always be there.
If I go nort-east then I run into a dozen giant radscorpions.
If I go West EAST (:stare: @ mirror) then I run into a couple of coyotes, then some powder gangers, then Sloan, then Super mutants, and if I turn north after Sloan I encounter deathclaws.
If I go south-EAST!! (I really shouldn't write when I'm tired...) then I run into powder gangers, some of them friendly, some hostile.
If I go south then I run into gecko's.

I'm not going to take every location in the game but this is just an example of how it's like everywhere.
I know that if I go west at Lady Gibsons House then I encounter nothing, but if I go north-west along the ridge then I encounter some radscorpions.
I know that if I go north...East... I run into two molerats.

So it's not the amount of combat.
It's that either I have super memory or the game is not very well designed with encounters since every spawn is completely static.

Okay, gonna stop now.

No I see what you mean Gabriel, and have felt similar thoughts as well.

Before I add to that, the OP Chaospaint is right the depth of detail put into the characters and quests is quite stunning.
I've played better rpg's with more immersive systems, but NV is a game that needs to be taken slowly and played from all angles to appreciate properly.

Back to the fishy one, this is the weak spot of NV, with removing leveling from all but a few MQ npc's.
The game world becomes more static as creatures rarely change, npc's have exactly the same weapons or a very small selection of them.
It adds to realism of groups but done en masse removes certain challenges later on and makes general combat predictable.

Oh yeah the writing is great and a lot of the NPC's are so lovable and certainly memorable and I love the mix of "meh" quests (I'm tired, forgot what word to use) and "epic" quests.

I agree with your point of view completely. I am not even finished with my first playthrough and it has already gotten to be predictable to me. Tha major thing that is missing for me to make my experience more fun is random battles and skirmishes while out in the Mojave wastes. I am tired and bored with Cazadors. In the beginning they were a challenge and very annoying, but now they are just plain annoying. I agree, the game has fallen off since FO3. I may not even finish the game. I will most likely start a very heavily modded FO3 game or play The Witcher ot may even play Oblivion as I have never actually played the game. I don't think I will bother finishing, who knows?

I would hardly agree that the game has been knocked out of the box. I thought that before I got to 70 plus hours of game and found it monotonous. Maybe the next one will be better.

I just wish there were more enemies with good guns and stuff thats why people liked the super mutants in Fallout 3 not just because they were mutants but because they were a fun enemy to fight unlike Cazadors