So at the end of the day you're asking that we pay a (claimedly) small price that only benefits you, compared to you paying a (claimedly) bigger price that only benefits us.
This is what you call a compromise on your end and selfish on ours with such radiating self-righteousness?
The only rationale I should be seeing here is that no-one has to concede anything to anyone.
I'm going to pay just as much as you for Skyrim, thus my opinion will have the same value as yours.


Ironically, I don't even remember minding (or using) the enchantment effects much in the past. It's probably just your infuriating arrogance that I find obnoxious.

What I would have accepted as compromise would have been an epic quest to unlock the highest enchantment limits. Wrestle secret enchanting recipes from an ancient lich, gather ingredients or materials from all over the world, battling truly mythical monsters, get involved in a plot between the divines, sacrifice something that is truly valueable to you (an innocent NPC, a companion, some of your attributes), to enchant these artifacts of such epicness - you know - make these legendary items truly worthy to make it into the lore books.

But no more of the silly handholding that occured in both Morrowind and Oblivion - you acquired whatever you needed over the natural course of the game.
Soulgem + soul + money is what you call an effort? For minor enchanments this is acceptable - but not for the greatest artifact in Tamriel's history that you're just about to craft.
Either BGS makes the crafting of these items a true, legendary process or leave them out.

Otherwise BGS will once again further succumb to childish minds, wanting to feel mighty and special in their game, without the effort to back it up.
And I'm not willing to give in to people who want these items no matter what. The indignity of using editors, trainers, hacks, console commands, or whatever suits them perfectly in mind.
So how's that for selfishness? We don't have to pay anything, and you just a pay a (claimedly) small price. That's perfectly fair for everyone by your standards.

This, as I believe allowing all spells (yes, including constant restore health) should be usable in enchanting, as it gives the player something to aim for.


The way to prevent constant restore health and other various overpowering enchantments is to make gaining an unbalancing advantage through these methods an unreachable goal, not to make it mechanically impossible.

No, the point is that removing gameplay mechanics such as these hurts only the people who like to use them.
If youre a player with no interest in making a 100% chameleon suit, you dont make one.
Its that simple.

But if the option is taken out alltogether, the game loses a lot of its gleam for people like me, and you dont really gain anything.
Because you never had to use them in the first place.

Its a bit insulting really the way people talk about console prods and godmode players.
I like the sheer freedom Morrowind offered, and disliked the stunted magic and enchanting in oblivion.
This does not mean I prefer to play godmode. I cant even, Im a xbox player due to financial constraints.
So the argument of just using the construction set if you want this kinda thing doesnt really apply.
I like it because it allows for non-linear, emergent gameplay. Not related to quests or monsters, just playing around to see what the game can and can't.

I like the chameleon suit because it allows for good NPC observation. When youre writing down an NPC's schedule for a guide or to help a friend, it isnt really productive if the NPC's 'default' behaviour is altered by their recognition of the player present.

When I am tired and just want to finish a quest before bed it also comes in handy.

The point is that I should have that choice. Let me decide how to play my game, let me decide what emergent gameplay I develop.
I get really irked by people who constantly want to push me down a narrow, shallow path like this is some sort of platform game. So far all Ive seen are nonsensical arguments for stunting the game, I have yet to come across an observation where I go: well, I dont agree but you have a point there.

I really wish people would stop demanding the game to be dumbed down when they are under no obligation whatsoever to use anything they petition against, and are in effect only hurting those who do enjoy said features.

This has been an enjoyable and enlightening thread to read. I’m not an expert or a hardcoe gamer on this type or any other type of game. I only play for entertainment. After reading through the different arguments the only thing I can see is you should agree to disagree. I have read similar threads on other game forums where no amount of explaining a point of view will change the other person’s mind.

From FO3 to NV the developers put in a hardcoe mode so you needed sleep, food, and water. Maybe if they place a hardcoe mode in Skyrim you can’t reach god mode. Who knows? If they have two modes of play along with the difficulty slider both sides may get to play the kind of game they like. I’m not a big fan of using absolutes in an argument and some of you think it has to be a certain way or forget it.



Wow, really? If the developers were making a game just for your type of gaming, well OK, but as we know they are making one where the largest group of players will find it entertaining. But please continue the discussion, I am enjoying it.

So basically what I'm understanding is that you used 100% cam to cheat and you liked being able to cheat whenever it suited you and those of us that don't want these types of exploits in the game are being selfish because we don't have to use those exploits if we don't want too. Does that about sum it up?

I've said this before but I'll say it again and again.

Self gimping is the worst concept in the history of gaming. Balance is the true mark of a well developed game. Period.

Actually thats not what Im saying at all.
I said that I used 100% chameleon to study NPC behaviour primarily.

I dont cheat, there are no cheat codes on xbox oblivion. There are on Morrowind, but I never used them.

Using an intentional game feature for emergent gameplay is not cheating.
Please dont twist my words like that again.

No, you're quite right. I'm sick of people thinking that the dont-like-it-dont-use-it argument will be the answer to everything and I'm pretty sure I am not going to hear anything else anymore.
Next thing I hear people want aircrafts, nuclear strikes and machineguns in Skyrim, which - of course - is perfectly reasonable and undisputable because ...wait for it ... it's going to be O P T I O N A L.

I have to say though that I'm not yet convinced that the largest group of players is going to find it entertaining to run around with godmode.
Some people may be gracious enough to accept it for the sake of others - kudos to them, but does that make it right yet? They're more selfless than most people deserve.

But I've had enough from this unfruitful conversation.

Part of the reason why Morrowind and Oblivion were so well recognized were their freedom. Limiting players who go through the effort from being able to eventually make exploitatively strong characters is counterproductive to what makes the elder scrolls series attractive to RPG gamers. Nothing is more of a turn-off to a gamer who comes up with a brilliant idea than seeing after all of the work they went through that they cannot do it.

The limiting suggestions in this thread are absolutely a step in the wrong direction.

Meh. Exploits and cheats are not what define TES and sandbox games. You have to stop confusing exploits&cheats with "freedom".

Mixing the two is called bad game design.

Believe it or not, most single-player games designers actually prefer balance and don't want their game to be a trivial exploitable mess - including BSG for Skyrim if you read some GI quotes.




I think theres a high chance such easily reached god-mode abilities won't be in Skyrim, or at-least won't take an hour or two to obtain like in Oblivion.

I don't see how people with your argument think that just because it is in the game you have to use it, weather it is an actual glitch (Super powerful arrows and mace, and item duplication in oblivion, I don't remember what they were called) or just a normal exploit in the game (100% chameleon). I used all of them for about 2-3 dungeons before realizing how much it svcked and how boring it was being able to walk through annihilating everything without ever being seen or attacked. So I made the decision to not use them anymore, WHY CAN'T YALL? Just because we don't like it doesn't mean it should be taken away from those that do. Think of them as a cheat codes and by not wearing it or using it they are turned off. Those of yall complaining about self gimping or immersion must be total RPG nerds that put on a helmet and cape when you play because it aint that hard to ignore things that don't make the game fun for you. But people on console that want it can't just mod it in or make believe they have that stuff. In the end it will be however Bethesda makes it and I for one hope they make it better (worse in yall's eyes) the higher your skill gets. If they make it in yalls favor I hope they add a ton of cheats to the game that give you all of those effects, but without being [censored]es about it, by not letting you save the game while using cheats.


Plus for those complaining about immersion, hearing your mom call you for dinner must be the total immersion breaker huh? Time for dinner. Oh man, mom I'm trying to slay a dragon give me 5 minutes you just totally ruined my immersion.

Having to avoid many enchants because they make you Invulnerable = bad game design. I noticed far less exploits in FO3 , and expect even less in Skyrim. Inherent easymode = terribad.

What I'd like is items that don't need to be recharged to be used. Needing to get the magical equivalent of batteries to use my mage's lightning sword was ridiculous. I was the one that enchanted it in the first place. Why can't I juice it up myself? There should also be some way for characters with smithing skills to fold magic into weapons.

Fun is the mark of a well developed game, if a game isn't fun to play then why on earth would I bother with it?

if you want fun with no challenge go play katimari damacy. It's really fun, so it must be a good game... right?

totally agree

I really had more fun enchanting objects in MW, and giving them witty names. I used expensive, high quality merchandise for enchanting stuff, wIth souls from living or spiritual things I'd killed. It seemed fitting, It also seemed fitting to have the soul, and the enchanted object match the effect.

Oblivion's take on it made it a pain. Took all the fun out of it. It would have been nice to have more options in regards to enchanting in Oblivion.
I found Oblivion to be more of a hacknslash with RPG bonus. It felt, well, dumbed down.

I hope that Skyrim will give us a happy medium of being able to enchant as a do it yourselfer, with powerful effects, but as in all skills, mastery should be required.