How should they deal with overpowering enchanted items?

Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:35 pm

There was a multitude of ways you could make overpowered items in past games. I hope they fix it somehow.
In my opinion, overpowered items in TES games included

constant effect 100% chameleon
constant effect Levitation (though i doubt we'll be able to do that again)
constant effect restore health/fatigue
Weapons with absorb health on strike >30pts (after i could make those,i never died)

DO you think Bethesda will try to counteract some of these exploitations, and if so how?
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Emma Louise Adams
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:01 pm

some kind of cap
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Emma louise Wendelk
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:06 pm

About the 50th time I've said this, and not the last : limit every effect to 85% they do it with the armour, why not reflect spell or chameleon. You can still be a super hero, but not invulnerable.
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kelly thomson
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:08 pm

make it harder to find constant effect souls. in morrowind i just used an summon golden saint, and azuras star. and if it isnt as easy to get money as it were in morrowind, paying for enchantments wont be a problem either.
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Kay O'Hara
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:45 am

About the 50th time I've said this, and not the last : limit every effect to 85% they do it with the armour, why not reflect spell or chameleon. You can still be a super hero, but not invulnerable.


okay, thats good for the constant effect spells, but what about the absorb health weapon? did anyone else find this totally unbalancing... that was the biggest, earliest exploit for me in both Morrowind and Oblivion.
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teeny
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:24 pm

Make absorb health unenchantable by players, maybe pop one or two weapons with the effect in as unique items, problem solved. Alternatively, make it obscenely expensive to enchant absorb health, thus soft capping the strength of any such weapons.
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Bereket Fekadu
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:03 pm

In my opinion, they shouldn't. If you don't want to get overpowered enchants, just don't. It's as simple as that, while those who do want to be overpowered have the option. Everybody wins and all it takes from you is some self control.
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Phoenix Draven
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:00 pm

In my opinion, they shouldn't. If you don't want to get overpowered enchants, just don't. It's as simple as that, while those who do want to be overpowered have the option. Everybody wins and all it takes from you is some self control.


that's valid. however i would like enchants to be insanely expensive, or at least not so accessible to lower level characters.
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NAkeshIa BENNETT
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:18 pm

Well since enchanting is going to be a skill again I'm assuming it's going to make it much harder to enchant stuff.
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Eliza Potter
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:05 pm

Have to agree, absorb health should be way more expensive, and wasn't just enchantment. Make a custom Absorb health in 10' you are just about immortal.
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Elina
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:31 pm

that's valid. however i would like enchants to be insanely expensive, or at least not so accessible to lower level characters.


This. If they don't include the enchantments, I'd feel they were only doing that to counter these kinds of complaints as there's no real reason too. But I also don't want them to include them and make them too easy to get.

Maybe making you work a bit harder to have access to means of enchantment for starters. Something I wanted in Morrowind/Oblivion was the ability to stack soul gems. If I want something powerful, instead of only using one Grand soul like I did in previous games, I might need to use 5.
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biiibi
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:51 pm

no! don't take my chameleon suit! I beg you! anything but the chameleon suit!
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Loane
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:02 am

How to fix this:
  • Each item needs an enchantment limit, so you can't put a too powerful enchantment on it. Morrowind had this.
  • Constant effect enchantments must be hard to achieve. In Morrowind you needed a very large soul (Golden Saint or greater) to be able to enchant constant effect.
  • Increase the cost of easily exploitable enchantment effects.

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Mariana
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:06 pm

Yes, they should leave enchanting the way it is, so users can do as they please. After all, the game isn't forcing them to overpower things.

But I hope they severely limit the amount of enchanted items you find in the game. After about level 2, I don't really remember ever using a weapon that wasn't enchanted, as you could just find them everywhere, and people would always give you more for doing quests.
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Facebook me
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:39 pm

They might just give diminishing returns this time around; especially with constant effects, everybody loves to stack those.

Like any combinations of absorb magicka, resist magicka, reflect pretty much granted full immunity to all hostile magic.

I wonder if they'll bring back item enchant limits as in morrowind; since now they have dual welding in, attack speed and on-hit enchantments make a really deadly combination.
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Eoh
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:20 am

It's extremely easy : unstacking magical effects. Multiple constant effect chameleon on items do not stack, only the stronger one applies. Same for temporary chameleon buffs, only the strongest one counts.

Works also for any enchant the player could make.
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aisha jamil
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:09 pm

There was a multitude of ways you could make overpowered items in past games. I hope they fix it somehow.
In my opinion, overpowered items in TES games included

constant effect 100% chameleon
constant effect Levitation (though i doubt we'll be able to do that again)
constant effect restore health/fatigue
Weapons with absorb health on strike >30pts (after i could make those,i never died)

DO you think Bethesda will try to counteract some of these exploitations, and if so how?

The restore health/fatigue effects are already forbidden on constant effects in Oblivion (i miss those :lol: )
Levitation - easy, do the same thing as restore health/fatigue
Weapons with absorb - increasing the casting cost on enchantments would do the trick
The trickiest is the 100% Chamaleon, because any kind of cap would make it useless on a non-bi&$# enchantment like say just on one piece of armor. Best way I think is what others suggested - Chameleon effects should just not stack up - if you want 100%, you have to cast in one spell.
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Tessa Mullins
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:04 pm

There's nothing to fix. The enchanting isn't broken. Everyone has the option to enchant however they want. If one person doesn't want to enchant a suit to 100% chameleon then that person could exercise some self control and not do it. For those that want to be able to do that the option is there. Having that option doesn't make it any less fun for the person that doesn't want to enchant to 100%. But not having the option hurts the experience for the person that wants it. This is a single player game and we should all be able to play however we want. The "but people are going to abuse it" argument is invalid because how one person plays the game isn't the business of anyone else.
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Nicole Kraus
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:25 pm

There's nothing to fix. The enchanting isn't broken. Everyone has the option to enchant however they want. If one person doesn't want to enchant a suit to 100% chameleon then that person could exercise some self control and not do it. For those that want to be able to do that the option is there. Having that option doesn't make it any less fun for the person that doesn't want to enchant to 100%. But not having the option hurts the experience for the person that wants it. This is a single player game and we should all be able to play however we want. The "but people are going to abuse it" argument is invalid because how one person plays the game isn't the business of anyone else.


your argument is invalid. you must think of the extremes of "the people are going to abuse it" argument

if at the beginning of the game you character has all the best weapons and armor for the game laid out right in front of him. He doesn't have to pick it up, but lots of players, especially newcomers to the series, will. having all the best weapons and armor at the very beginning would ruin a game like TES.

The same principles relate to overpowering enchanting. I don't think necesarrily it should be impossible to become overpowered with enchantments, but one should have to be a very high level to attain such powerful items. In Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion, you could make these items at a very low level.
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Kim Bradley
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:48 am

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8423/diakatana.jpg is the sort of thing the Skyrim enchantment system needs to prevent. One second Soul trap effect in there that's not listed.

This goes more to the magic system in general, but the player shouldn't have a total monopoly on it. If you dream up a super spell, or enchant a uber sword, there should be a chance some other NPC out there can have the same. The hardest fights I had in Oblivion was with my own clone in SI because that NPC had all the same tools and abilities. Getting hit with your own 900+ point damage poison, or tactical nuke spell, really hurts.
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Ashley Tamen
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:15 am

your argument is invalid. you must think of the extremes of "the people are going to abuse it" argument

if at the beginning of the game you character has all the best weapons and armor for the game laid out right in front of him. He doesn't have to pick it up, but lots of players, especially newcomers to the series, will. having all the best weapons and armor at the very beginning would ruin a game like TES.

The same principles relate to overpowering enchanting. I don't think necesarrily it should be impossible to become overpowered with enchantments, but one should have to be a very high level to attain such powerful items. In Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion, you could make these items at a very low level.


I don't recall saying that anything should be readily available at the beginning of the game (goes back and looks...) Nope. I didn't. You assumed totally for the sake of your own argument.
Since enchanting will be returning as a skill, no one would be able to enchant to 100% without a considerable amount of skill in enchanting. More likely than not, it would be Master level.
As far as paying to have something enchanted. The price would be steep considering the amount of skill it takes.

EDIT: This way, anyone can still enchant to 100% if they want, or they don't have to if they don't want to. All the while, the ability to enchant to 100% remains reserved for players who have put in a considerable amount of time to do so. Win/Win situation here.

Both of these prevent anyone from jumping into the game and instantly being invincible.

You don't know what any other players will do. Nor do I for that matter. Everything is assumed and you are assuming that everyone is suddenly going to abuse a system that you don't like. When I first played Morrowind (the first game I played in TES series) I had it on PC. I didn't instantly jump into the construction set to give myself all the best everything so I could be God, and I most certainly could have because the CS is wicked easy to use. So you're assumption that new players would abuse this system holds no water.

And furthermore, as I stated, the way one person plays the game, really doesn't affect anyone else. Just because you think it's a flaw because "OMG it MIGHT get abused!" doesn't mean it needs to be changed. If you don't want to use it, don't. It's honestly really easy and the game is set up so that anyone can play the way they want to play.
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Kate Norris
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:22 pm

Yes they should deal with them by first taking chamleon entirely or just take it away from enchanting.
Levitation ... I dont know Im pretty new, started at Oblivion.
And The Absort could be maxium of 10 points per strike OR keep it in 30 but only like 5-10 blows
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D LOpez
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:09 pm

Having said all this, if it's in, don't mess with the Ebony Blade ( mah personal fav'rit ) , nothing wrong with absorb health on a Daedric artefact. Actually, many artefacts were underpowered with the OB enchanting system, and that just feels wrong. They should be the TES equivalent of Blackhawk, the Zuanlong and the Tesla cannon.
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Josh Dagreat
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:15 pm

your argument is invalid. you must think of the extremes of "the people are going to abuse it" argument

if at the beginning of the game you character has all the best weapons and armor for the game laid out right in front of him. He doesn't have to pick it up, but lots of players, especially newcomers to the series, will. having all the best weapons and armor at the very beginning would ruin a game like TES.

The same principles relate to overpowering enchanting. I don't think necesarrily it should be impossible to become overpowered with enchantments, but one should have to be a very high level to attain such powerful items. In Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion, you could make these items at a very low level.

How is that our problem? if people are stupid and don't realise that a "Sword of Pwnage +10" isn't a good choice for his level 1 character then that's his problem, if he then wanted balance and his brain functioned he'd toss the thing and get another, more balanced sword.
The argument is perfectly valid, if someone can't restrain themselves or doesn't know any better, that's how they'll learn.

Where is the sense in robbing people of the option to make overpowered characters? I can just mod it in myself, not everyone can though, and it's pretty damn fun to just make a godlike character and just [censored] around every now and then. If you think your enjoyment of the game or catering to new players is more important than everyone having the option to enjoy the game as they see fit, then I can't agree with you, that's not only selfish, it's not rational.

If you take no measures, then the most people can be happy with it. Those who can't restrain themselves or don't know better have themselves to blame.
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Barbequtie
 
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Post » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:06 pm

If one person doesn't want to enchant a suit to 100% chameleon then that person could exercise some self control and not do it.

Then where's the fun in trying to find/create the best enchanted items, if you know the result is just going to be a cheat? It really takes the wind out of finding powerful enchantments.. instead of a "wow, this is awesome!" it becomes a "damn, this is too powerful". You may as well just have a note telling you how to open the console and use 'tgm'.
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Nymph
 
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