How I think Tullius ambushed Ulfric : V

» Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:16 pm

http://24.media.tumblr.com/9c8598123cb7d32a93ccbcafcbc5a561/tumblr_mwarr31FIC1rubhgfo1_1280.png

This is how I think General Tullius ambushed Ulfric Stormcloak. Ralof mentions that they were ambushed outside Darkwater Crossing. I'm assuming Ulfric was heading North-West, but this scenario would also work if he was heading South-East.

The red Xs are Imperial squads/sections, and the blue S is Ulfric and his troops. Tullius would've waited until the Stormcloaks neared the foot of the North bridge. The squads from the hill and town would've then surrounded the Stormcloaks from the rear. If the Stormcloaks decided to cross the North-West bridge, they would've funneled right into the squad waiting on the other side.

The squad near the town is optional, as it would've had to remain hidden from the townspeople until the ambush. Darkwater Crossing has a couple of Stormcloak guards and is generally loyal to the Stormcloaks, so Tullius would've had to weigh the risks of having the townspeople and guards alert Ulfric versus having a squad to secure the town and North-East bridge. But even without a squad near the town, the Stormcloaks would've been surrounded and outnumbered.

So what was Ulfric doing in the area? Keep in mind that he killed High King Torygg at the start of the civil war earlier that year (4E 201), so he probably wasn't coming back from Solitude. I assume he was checking in on the various Stormcloak camps in the area.

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Also, as an added note, there seems to be some confusion about the border the player character in Skyrim was crossing before being caught in the Imperial ambush. Ralof says you were caught while trying to cross the border. He wasn't talking about the border between Cyrodiil and Skyrim, since Darkwater Crossing is nowhere near there. I assume he means crossing the border from Eastmarch to the Rift, since Darkwater Crossing is in Eastmarch Hold. He wasn't saying that crossing the Hold borders is illegal, he was just saying that's what you were trying to do when you were mistakenly captured. So does this mean your character is from Eastmarch?

Here's where it gets confusing. Hadvar comments that you're from Cyrodiil. Since Cyrodiil has a mix of races greater than other lands, and since you're new to Skyrim, he may have just assumed that you were from Cyrodiil. Maybe you crossed the border into Skyrim from Cyrodiil recently before getting captured at Darkwater Crossing, and after telling this to Ralof, he later confuses it to mean that you were trying to cross the border from Eastmarch to the Rift.

The only things certain about your character are that you've only arrived in Skyrim recently and may not originally be from there, and that you were captured by Darkwater Crossing. What you were doing there and what you're doing in Skyrim is up to you. I wanted to clarify these details because they're important for people who want to role-play their characters and give them backgrounds and such.

» Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:44 am

He said "trying"

It means crossing the said "border" requires an effort and the result can be a failure.

Think back to Skyrim: you do not need to exert any effort to cross hold borders sans the energy you spend on walking or breathing (most likely both). Crossing the border is always a success, because there literally is no guard along the hold borders, otherwise you can't escape from your killing spree in Solitude to the safety of Markarth.

If I remember correctly, Ulfric was actually going back to Windhelm after killing Torygg, but I can be wrong

» Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:53 am

so all of that happened in a day or two ?? tulius just magically came from cyrodil to skyrim ( a very long journey ) and made a master plan to ambush ulfric and poor ulfric couldn't even made back to windhelm maybe he was lost in wilderness, forgot the way back home :rofl: :rofl:

i dont think so

» Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:03 am

Its assumed tullius was in Skyrim for quite awhile after Toryggs death, truth be told I've ignored the civil war, somewhat convoluted to me so can ffolks answer these questions, with facts pwees.

How long was Ulfrics rebellion before he killed Torygg? was it even a rebellion? I'm sure it was just his dissent and being out spoken, by that time Tullius wouldn't have been sent no?

how long until after Ulfric pwned Torygg did Tullius show up? the Imperials were always in Skyrim so Lokir's statement about them being lazy until the rebellion rolled in works fine.

Why was he near darkwater? and why didn't they just take him to Fort Nugrad(sp) instead of (the devs) making it a bandit fort from the get go?(as usual)

» Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:40 am

I prefer to think that he did it with the pointy end of his sword...

:twirl: :yuck:

» Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:22 pm

Ulfric willingly bound his hands and mouth and surrendered to Tullius. They devised the ambush plan in a mutual show of respect to praise Tullius' strategic sense, and Ulfric's sense of honor.

» Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:35 am

1. Ulfric retook Markarth from the Reachmen in 4E 176. Ulfric and his men were arrested for allowing the worship of Talos in Markarth, but were soon released. For the next 25 years, Ulfric tried to gather support for his rebellion against the Empire, but it wasn't successful until he killed Torygg, which is when all the Holds took sides and the civil war officially began.

2. Unknown. Sometime in 4E 201.
3. Unknown. Tullius was originally supposed to take him to the Imperial City to be executed, but decided to do it in Helgen, so to his credit he was trying to hurry it along, but he also had to make a public example out of Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, so executing him on the spot or in a non-public area like a fort wouldn't have had the same effect. This is because executing Ulfric and the Stormcloaks he had with him wouldn't have been enough to end the rebellion. Galmar Stone-Fist and the other Stormcloak generals would've still been alive and in command of the bulk of Ulfric's troops, as is the case after you complete the Civil War quests.

Good one.

» Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:42 am

The ambush likely took place north of Riften. Near the watchtower with the dead stormcloaks in it.

By "trying to cross the border" I assume they mean the one at the border of the jeralls. We're actually heading away from that border at the start of the game(We enter helgen from the south after all). I'm assuming the imperials believe you had something to do with the avalanche that closed pale pass.

» Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:43 am

The rebellion's been going ever since the MI according to Igmund.(Ulfric was pretty obviously not released right away given his accounts of not being there when his father died.) It was small and disorganized at first and had no known leader. Imperials took to calling them stormcloaks, implying they'd share the same fate. They accepted this name and started calling themselves that too.(I believe Ralof mentions this) At some point, Ulfric is released and becomes jarl of Windhelm. He still hasn't openly rebelled yet,(Though I would highly suspect him to be offering aid and support to the stormcloaks) otherwise there would be no reason for him to "talk in terms just shy of treason" at the moot. He'd have already committed treason. Ulfric doesn't openly support the rebellion until some time in 4e200 or very early 4e201, when he challenges Torygg to the duel. The death of the high king splits allegiances in skyrim. 5/9 support the stormcloaks(I'm not sure when Dengeir was replaced, but the circumstances around it seem to indicate it was because he supported the stormcloaks. This could have been his general sentiment before the death of Torygg though, and Siddgeir may have usurped him before the time of the rebellion full.), 3/9 support the empire, balgruuf refuses to pick a side. Ulfric is apparently winning at this point. Some time in 4e200 or 201, Tullius gets called in to replace the guy in charge of skyrim's legion and put down the rebellion. Most of the rest is as we've seen it in game.