I have not seen 1 post that proves him a Bad traitor.

Yes he is rebeling, But for a good reason.

The emperor is a traitor, I say this because he has allowed the ban of worshiping Talos, The founder of the empire. The emperor has betrayed the heart of the empire. Ulfric is doing what is right rebeling against a failed empire.

this is just what I think about it.

I would like honest answers.

questions for empire supporters.-
1. How is he a bad traitor.

2. If he is a traitor, Why do you think he betrayed.

3. Why do you hate Ulfric.



questions for stormcloaks-
1. How is he not a bad traitor.

2. If he is a traitor, Why fo you think he betrayed.

3. Why do you support Ulfric.

Please state If you are Empire or Stormcloak.

I am a Stormcloak supporter.

Edit: I re-worded some parts. Asking why is he a BAD traitor, instead of just traitor. I done that because rebel is a traitor, But ulfric is a traitor for a good reason. I want to know why he is Bad.

Rebelling, even for a good reason, makes you a traitor.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Legal_Basics

Being a rebel makes you traitor - even if it is for a good case.

Technically rebelling is being a traitor, which means even in the real world anyone who has rebelled against a government even for a legitimate reason was a traitor.

I will edit it and re-word abit.

Only if you lose the war.
if you win it and manage to stay in power you are not an traitor anymore.

For one to be a traitor, one has to view the situation from the perspective of those they have rebelled against. Some will be humble and consider themselves traitors, admitting they broke oaths to a higher power - be it a crime syndicate, an empire, or even a divine - but many will consider those they once served to be the traitors (Stormcloaks see the Empire as betraying the Nords and Talos).

It goes without saying that you shouldn't go around swearing your allegiance to different causes then breaking those oaths of loyalty, or then you'll be considered untrustworthy at best. It wouldn't matter if you won in any disputes, you would have proven repeatedly that you can't keep your end of a bargain.

Your avatar looks like a female version of my follower and what you said is true.

I don't know if you can consider it betraying someone when that someone has already betrayed you.

1. The reason he is doing it being 'good' is arguable. I'd argue that the reason he wants all that power is no more a noble a reason than any Emporer wanting the power they covet. Besides like others said simply by killing the High king he is now a traitor by Imperial law. Nord law honestly doesn't matter for squat until the Empire is actually out of Skyrim. Why do you think Ulfric high tailed it out of the city after he killed him? Even Ulfric knows it made him a traitor.

2. He did it for all the reasons he states in game, I'm willing to bet a large reason he did it was also just so that he could have more power.

3. I don't 'hate' Ulfric I just think he is an immense ass clown. For a guy on such a strong power trip who loves to talk about how weak the Empire is and how Skyrim deserves a 'true' 'strong' nord leader the man sure has been captured or arrested a lot. So much for his scary scary thu'um. My main character enjoyed simply using his own logic against him to show him that there are much better leaders out there than him.

I'll answer these in the persona I did the Civil War under, since that might put it into better context.
Artanis Azreel, Cyrod Battlemage, age 35.

1. How is he a traitor.
"Well, attempting to sever Skyrim from the Empire seems to be a perfectly good grounds for being labeled a Traitor if you ask me...Being a Kingslayer doesn't help...Regicide never sits well."

2. If he is a traitor, Why do you think he betrayed.
"My feelings? He wanted to wear the daddy pants and run Skyrim the way HE felt it should..."

3. Why do you hate Ulfric.
"Hate is a strong word. Hate implies that every inch of me shudders at his passing in disgust. I think he's a twit, a prat, and a boy with delusions of grandeur. But I don't HATE him...Mostly because I've been guilty of being all three of those myself in the past."

4. He did it for both power and the reasons he stated, this is a very possible situation.

Already said that in point 2.

thaks for answering the questions.

I know Ulfric is power hungry and Killed Torygg to Send a message, But he is what Skyrim needs to become free from the Empire and Thalmor.

Dunmer - Imperial Legion Mage here!

1. How is he a bad traitor?
He murdered the High King of Skyrim and raises his Banner against the Empire. It does not matter whether he agrees with the Emperor's decisions or not, he just has to go along with them.

2. If he is a traitor, Why do you think he betrayed?
However, I do believe he has a good reason to turn against the Empire! The Empire has sided with the Aldmeri Dominion and banned the worship of a God! Rather than become the Dominion's Lapdog, Ulfric decided to stand up for what he believes is right, even though it may mean killing former Brothers in Arms!

However, I am remaining a member of the Empire, as it is a well known fact that when they have regained their Military's Strength, they will rise again to Fight the Dominion and destroy it completely!

3. Why do you hate Ulfric?
I do not hate Ulfric, I actually quite like his character. I believe he is a man of virtue, but I am not willing to turn my back on an Empire that was trying to do its best for the people (the only reason it signed the White Gold Concordat was to protect the Citizens of Tamriel by stopping so much death).

I misunderstood what you were saying there, not a big mistake right?

I'm of the opinion that he is a weakling with a big mouth. Even without the Dragonborn Ulfric has already been captured twice. Conversly I think the 'weak' Mede II has only been captured by an enemy once, if at all, and I have never heard anything of Tullius ever getting overwhelmed by enemies and becoming their prisoner.


Loll it happens I misunderstand posts all the time.

He isn't a traitor by Nord law, just Imperial (cause law and talking are all Imperials know how to do.)

He is a traitor but he isn't one.

Anyway my khajiit Kharjo and I will send a clear message to both sides that both are right and wrong at the same time by bashing their faces in.

These are all good points.

The daddy pants- Yes he does want to run skyrim the way he thinks it should be run. He is doing this because the Empire is not what it used to be, countless Nords died fighting for the empire and for what, The emperor to surrender and to Ban the worship of talos, allow thalmor to drag nords off the streets. Ulfric done good and bad things, he is what skyrim needs.

Stormcloak circlejerking truly knows no bounds.

Bashing Stormcloaks, Imperials, and Thalmor in the faces truly know no bounds either XD

Lets just say that I do it to the first two because they like to argue over who is right and I do it to the Thalmor because it is the Thalmor.

He did and did not murder Torygg.

In nord law it was single combat.
In empire law he murderd Torygg.