If your going for an all-rounder though, There are better options than the Bozar.
The Survivalists rifle comes to mind.

The SR isn't really useful at long range due to the busted sights though. Personally, I can barely use it at medium range, again due to those twisted sights. Figure a repair 100 courier with jury rigging and a workbench could fix it, but sadly not.

It also uses rare 12.7mm ammo, which doesn't have any other types besides standard/HP/JHP, so it's not as useful vs armored targets. More importantly, its not an automatic weapon and it only has a ten round mag, which means it's a lot less useful at close range versus multiple foes.

The SR can be used at all ranges just like the brush gun can... But it's only really good at midrange, where you don't have to worry about being surrounded but also don't have to wrestle with the sights to hit a tiny target at the edge of the viewing distance.

Compare Bozar, which has a scope (making it over nine thousand times better at long range), automatic fire + fast reload (making it much better at close range against multiple enemies), and uses basic 5.56 ammo, which has a whole lot of specialized ammo varieties including match, AP, .223, HP, etc.

The sights are fine, just use the right notch as the actual sight.
12.7mm is very common from vendors like the GK armorer, Bardon and Contreas.
Its high DAM bypasses DT easily.
Its really easy to fire fast at close range.

Also compare the cost:
Bozar is 25,000 caps
SR is free

There's a number of weapons in this game that just fall between two chairs because they combine incompatible features. The Holorifle, K9000/FIDO, the Bozar all combine automatic fire, low spread and a scope that they can't make good use of.

An automatic Holorifle?
What game are you playing?

Heh, well, Holorifle just has low spread, I suppose. Still a fall-between-two-chairs gun. If you want to be effective you'll still carry a YCS/186 for long range and something un-scoped for close range.

That doesn't work very well at long range in my experience. In any event, it's a hell of a lot less useful than the Bozar's scope.



Not as common as 5.56. It's also more than twice as expensive as basic 5.56, two caps more expensive than 5.56 AP/HP, and more than twice the weight of every 5.56 round in hardcoe.



It's less efficient vs high DT enemies though. Oh sure the SR has enough raw damage to overpower most mook-level armor, but you're still losing anywhere from 15 to 31 damage per shot, depending on if you're hunting deathclaws or Paladins. With 5.56 AP however, deathclaw armor is outright ignored, and you'll still do a fair bit of damage to Paladins.



Every time I try I get swarmed and pwned by cazadors. With the Bozar I can machine gun those damn murder wasps. Its ten round magazine is a pretty big hinderance at close range, as is its semi-auto fire. SR's base DPS is 187.2. Bozar's is 285.

Bozar out DPS' the SR something fierce, and at close range vs multiple enemies, that matters a lot more than huge single shot damage.



This is true. On the other hand, you have to do Honest Hearts to get the SR, while you can buy the Bozar as soon as you've got the caps for it.

I don't have GRA, but I have to say this discussion is interesting.

One thing I have noticed is that scoped automatic weapons(K9000) tend to be massively better than non-scoped automatic weapons. The scope gives you a chance to lead your shots, to make note of where they fall and adjust accordingly. I would assume the Bozar would do the same.

I personally haven't used the LMG, but I have used the SR. The SR is crap for close-range fighting. The only thing it's good at at close range is if you have HP, use a lot of VATS, and are controlling Cazadores. At medium range, it's awesome against just about everything bc it's base DAM is high enough to beat most armor. I have noticed absolutely nothing wrong with it's sights. That seems to just be the flavor of the weapon-something to learn.

I would love a gun that uses such incredibly common ammo and eliminates the need to carry any other gun-just a Melee/Unarmed back-up.

Ultimately, FNV is a game about style. If your character's style is all about pumping enemies full of hundreds of bullets a second, the Bozar isn't your gun. If your character's style is about carrying a number of different semi-auto rifles for different situations, the Bozar isn't your gun. If your character's style is about staying far away from the enemy and plugging them with a sniper rifle, Bozar ain't your gun. If your character's style is to be the fastest draw in the west, Bozar isn't it. However, if your character only wants to carry one gun, only worry about one type of ammo....Bozar sounds like it's your gun. Naturally, if your character's style is about dis-integrations, pugilism, slashing, smashing, or exploding, your really better off staying away from it.

-Nukeknockout

Not gonna' respond to the other stuff as it now just comes down to personal expierence.
But for those 25k caps spent on the Bozar, you could buy up to 10k 12.7mm rounds.
And those last a lot longer than 10k 5.56mm rounds.

Don't the Holorifle and K9000 have low-zoom scopes though?
I distinctly remember being able to use their scopes with ease, because all they allowed me to do is try to focus fire specifically to the head. I can't usually use the Bozar's scope in close-range though BECAUSE it's such a long-range zoom. I'll get my headshots, sure, but now I can't see squat except his head, and I don't like not knowing my surroundings.

You have clearly never used the fully modded holorifle with an energy weapons character. It beats the YCS/186 10 out of 10 times for versatility and effectiveness.

I find even those low-zoom scopes to be an obstruction. You just don't take shots this long with the Holorifle, and zooming on on a target with K9000 makes you more likely to miss, not less- it's harder to walk your fire after a moving target when it's something fast like a Nightstalker.

10k 12.7mm rounds is 640 pounds without pack rat. 320 with. You're not going be carrying all those rounds around if you want to actually carry loot with you. It's also going to be a pain in the butt gathering that many rounds. Bardon carries a few hundred 12.7 versus thousands of 5.56. Vendotron has less. Everyone, even Chet, carries decent amounts of 5.56. And even basic 5.56 is useful for breaking down for match rounds.

12.7mm is also less versatile for the weapons it feeds. With 12.7, you can use survivalist's rifle, 12.7mm pistol, and 12.7mm SMG. (+ Lil 'Devil and GRA SMG). Of those, the two pistols basically do the same role as the SR except worse, due to less damage. The SMG can handle close in foes better, but it's going to eat through your expensive and rare (compared to 5.56) 12.7mm rounds fast while being worthless at range.

Neither of them are as effective at long range as a Bozar with 5.56 match ammo, due to that scope. The SR is not as effective at close range due to the much smaller DPS and smaller mag.

Basically, the SR is simply not as good a general weapon as the Bozar. You can't snipe with it (no scope), you can't spray and pray with it in close (no auto.) You can't feed it AP rounds, or match rounds to improve its accuracy. You can't find its bullets everywhere. Its handload bullets are a lot less useful than 5.56 match.

Don't think I'm badmouthing the SR here or anything. It's a good gun, but it simply can't replace the Bozar as the premier generalist.

I know you won't carry around 10k ammo with you, I was just showing how the SR is more cost effective.
You don't need a scope to snipe, The SR has great accuracy. I can put down enemys as soon as I see them.
The Bozars low dam makes it rather ineffective against Armored targets. I know you can say AP rounds, but they are really rare.
The SRs high DAM per shot negates the need of AP rounds.
The Bozar is not good at close range due to its scope, makes it hard to hit.
On a Round for Round basis, The SR goes much,much futher than the Bozae.

I've practiced quite a bit with the fully modded Holorifle. It does fine in VATS but it can't be relied upon to hit the broad side of the barn at medium range in free shooting, and at close range I need to re-train myself for NOT zooming in like I do with every other weapon because of the damn scope. It seems to do particularly badly against partially obscured targets.

By that metric a brush gun is the most cost effective of all since you can get scores of them for nothing off of Lobotomites in OWB. It's a bit silly to compare the cost of the gun when talking about the cost of ammo since, over time, the gun will eventually pay for itself.



The SR has low spread but not much zoom (compared to a scope) and the sights, any way you slice it, are less effective for sniping than an actual scope. Even if you get skilled enough to rack up headshots from long range with the SR, you're still ultimately compensating for the gun's poor sights with your own skill and experience with the gun.



What? 5.56mm AP rounds are a lot more common than 12.7mm rounds of any stripe. Even Chet usually has a few, and so do the rest of the weapon merchants. The actual high end gun merchants tend to carry more 5.56 AP than they do 12.7mm, too.



I already addressed this. On a per shot basis it's more efficient to use AP than to just rely on DAM to overwhelm high DT targets.



Why are you using a scope at close range? The bozar's spread is low enough that firing from the hip at close range works just fine. Particularly if you're using match rounds. (To compare, a bozar unscoped still has less spread than an LMG which is using iron sights.)

Close range is really a place where automatic weapons walk over semi automatic ones. Again, the bozar's DPS is higher than the SR's. Its effective DPS is higher than the SR's.

Even with grunt the SR has a DPS of 234 vs the Bozar's base of 285. At close range DPS is a lot more important than pure DAM, given how high DAM weapons almost always have low magazines, relatively low ROF, and how when you're surrounded by cazadors or deathclaws, a second can mean the difference between reloading the game or surviving.



So does Christine's silenced gun. But that doesn't mean it's as effective a general weapon than the Bozar.

Again, point here is that the Bozar works adequately in all range brackets. It doesn't excel in any, but it doesn't have to. The Survivalist's Rifle doesn't work well at long range, since it lacks a scope. It doesn't work well at short range since it has comparatively low ROF and DPS mixed with a tiny magazine. Its place is pretty firmly in medium range. It can shoot at long range, and it can shoot at short range, but it's not an optimal weapon for those roles.

I personally don't see any desire to use the Bozar as a PC-operated weapon system. I have found it works quite well if you have Boone as your companion though. From what I've seen, he tends to engage targets at a further range than when he's armed with other "common" assault rifles, meaning he's less likely to run out in the open (and into your own line of fire). And it has a decent enough RoF and DPS that it functions okay in CQB environments.

But as a personal weapon, it lacks in almost every aspect. I've served in the Army as an Infantryman, with a majority of that time spent as the Automatic Rifleman (SAW Gunner). So I'm pretty experienced in the employment of automatic rifles, as well as when you should and shouldn't mount magnified optics to them. Unlike the kiddies nowadays who want to throw scopes on everything (including their pistols), weapons like an LMG just aren't meant to be mounted with magnified optics.

If you're wanting to use the Bozar as an LMG, it's going to suffer due to the low magazine capacity. With the mod installed, the normal LMG will have a capacity of 200 rounds, allowing it to properly serve its purpose. Both the base LMG and the Bozar have a spread that is far too high (in my opinion) to serve as a sniper/marksman rifle. And with the optics installed, it's likely to have a negative impact on function against mid- and close-range targets. Also don't let that high DPS fool you; it comes at the cost of low dam/shot, meaning you'll blow through a lot of ammo.


Personally, I generally have a variety of weapons set up on hotkeys ready to swap depending on the situation. If you know how to manage your loadouts properly, and take the time to visit your hotel often enough to restock and dump surplus, then the weight of a multi-weapon setup shouldn't be a problem even in hardcoe mode.

For those interested, I'll list below the weapons I generally pack with me and how they are generally used. Note that I currently only have GRA and OWB, so some weapons I have not yet tried and those listed below are based on that fact. (Note there is no #2, as that slot is locked from custom assignment)

1) CQB - 12.7mm SMG = This slot is reserved for close-range combat, such as indoors or in terrain where long shots are not going to happen. I want a weapon with a high RoF, good magazine capacity, and respectable DPS. The 12.7mm SMG (GRA) when fully modded also adds the tactical bonus of being suppressed, especially useful when you want to sneak through a building. The spread is not outrageously high, but it's not too low either. And in CQB, a little spread helps when targets move up close.

3) Close Range, Multi-purpose - Riot Shotgun = With the high dam/shot and great overall DPS, this weapon is a powerhouse in close-range combat. It's fairly quick to reload, and still offers enough rounds to take out several short-range targets (such as melee-users) and still have a couple rounds left in the drum "just in case". And with the new ammunition choices brought in by the GRA DLC, this weapon is probably the most versatile weapon in the game. I can load slugs or flechette for armored foes, 4/0B for some serious soft-target tenderizing, Dragon's Breath for those pesky insects, and even Pulse shot to knock on robots or turrets.

4) Mid-range Precision - All American (Marksman Carbine) = For those mid-range shots where you want to put a hurtin' on your target quickly, I haven't seen anything better than All American. It has a very low spread, a decent dam/shot, a good magazine capacity, decent reload speed, and just looks nice. When you spot a target that is "too close" to use a sniper weapon but too far for your SMG or scattergun, the Marksman Carbine variants are awesome. And you have 3 choices of ammunition available (not including the surplus crap or el-cheapo .223) depending on your target's armor rating. The DPS might not look that high, but generally you have more than enough firepower to drop targets at medium range before they become a threat. If the All American isn't enough, you're likely in a situation where boom-boom toys are better suited.

5) Sniper Rifle - AMR (GRA) = For my sniping weapon of choice, I go with the Anti-Material Rifle, GRA variant. It has a lower RoF than the standard Sniper Rifle variants, but when one shot will generally take out just about any target available, its slower speed is still more than suitable. And with the addition of specialty rounds like Incendiary or Explosive, you can have a lot of fun with it. I've been able to take out a group of 4 fiends with a single HE shot fired from stealth, and it is one of the best weapons for engaging hard hitters like Deathclaw from a safe distance. Grab Boone and ED-E for some true enjoyment of long-distance death-dealing.

6) Crowd Control - 25mm APW = I like having at least some form of "crowd control", a weapon that is effective against groups of targets or targets partially (or fully) behind cover. When modded out, this weapon has proven to be more effective than the 25mm GMG, at substantially less weight. And with the mix of HE, Plasma, Pulse, and Timed munitions, it's almost as capable of an all-rounder as the Riot Shotgun. It's also a great weapon to use in initiating contact, firing a round (or burst) into an enemy encampment before swapping over to your mid-range or close-range weapons.

7) Heavy Weapon - Fat Man (GRA) = When modded, the weapon only weighs in at 15, so it's one hell of a light weapon considering the damage capabilities. When you absolutely need to wipe out an entire sector of land, nothing compares. And with the variety of munitions, you can tailor the damage and spread as needed. In my opinion, it's also one of the most enjoyable weapons to watch used. Just make sure there are no friendlies in the area before firing, and it helps to take the explosion resistance perk.

> As a note, if mass destruction is not as desired as "precision" destruction, an alternative could include Annabelle or a modded Missile Launcher, both offering a limited selection of missile types. Another alternate, although shorter ranged, is Mercy. Just beware that it'll chew through 40mm like candy.

8) Hand Grenade = I always carry grenades of some sort, usually 10-15 on myself and 30-40 on my companion. The type of grenade used will often depend on what's available and at which point in the game I am. For example, higher up in levels the default frags are not very effective. Mainly I use them where my 25mm APW isn't suited, such as indoors or dropping over a cliff edge. I also tend to carry a stack of 10-15 land mines, and will swap out my grenades with mines if I plan to use them for a while.

Once the Pulse Gun is obtained, I generally tend to throw it onto slot 8, so I can grab it quickly when facing robots or turrets and pulse grenades/mines are not suitable. As you can guess, I'm not much of an Energy Weapons user so I have plenty of cells to spare, and the Pulse Gun eats em up pretty fast.




Of course everyone will have their own personal opinions on which weapons are better in different circumstances or against different opponents, so I'm not going to insist my loadout is better than anyone else. My point is that you should try to test out every weapon available, find its strengths and weaknesses, and determine which work best for you. And if your build/weight allows, try to pack a variety of weapons to fit particular situations. This also helps ensure you aren't burning through weapon durability on any one specific weapon too quickly.

Are you factoring in the bonus from match ammo? Because with match ammo, the 40% crouch bonus, and the 60% scope/iron sights spread bonus it's spread becomes 0.12, which is more than accurate enough for most sniping.



Somewhat. The Bozar's spread is low enough that you can fire it accurately from the hip at close and mid range though. IRL it totally wouldn't work like this since firing from the hip is garbage, but in game it does. For reference, a Bozar fired from the hip has around the same spread as an LMG that's firing from iron sights.



On the other hand, its ammo is dirt cheap and available everywhere, and also compatible with some other very good guns, including the All American, LMG, Ratslayer, and 5.56 pistol/That Gun.



That loadout of yours leaves you with precious little room for loot unless you've optimized your char for carry weight by taking both the carry weight perks, plus strong back, burden to bear, and the NCR duster.

I mean, 12.7 SMG + ammo. Riot shotgun + ammo. All American + ammo. AMR + ammo. 25mm APW + ammo. Fatman + ammo.

That's (5 gun + 4 mags at 28 rds/mag = 7 lbs) + (5 gun + 4 mags at 12 shells/mag = 3.6) + (6 gun + 4 mags at 24 rds/mag = 2.49) + (13 gun + 4 mags at 8 rds/mag = 8) + (8 gun + 4 mags at 8 rds/mag = 8) + (15 gun + 4 rds = 12)

So 12 + 8.6 + 8.49 + 21 + 16 + 27 = 93 pounds. And that's with me assuming a really low amount of ammo for each gun, since 4 mags of ammo for an SMG doesn't go very far at all. Granted pack rat would almost halve this figure, but pack rat needs 90 barter so it's not available to most couriers until they start hitting level 40+... At which point they're so powerful that weapons only matter because of aesthetics.

For your average courier, that loadout is nearly half his max weight in hardcoe, and that's not taking into account food, armor, weapon repair kits, doctor bags, or other gear. Sure you have a gun for every occasion, but you don't have much spare space to carry loots.

I think I'll reiterate what I've stated before which is that I think what Josh was going for was to integrate new weapons into the tiers to suit new playthroughs, characters/play-tyles, while not alienating every super powered weapon already available nor being the weakest of the bunch.

So why does Bozar have to be the best long range heavy weapon or suited for end-game?

I never opted to take the handloading perk, namely because I saw it being more of a hassle than it was worth. And considering you'd have to hand-load all of those rounds to be as effective as you mention, it just doesn't sound like it's worth it to me. Maybe if this were an MMO in which gameplay lasts years, but not in a game where your character will be set aside in a week.




I carry enough ammunition for each weapon based on the frequency of use. I think I mentioned it before, but I prefer to RTB often to repair, resupply, rest, etc. My SMG is used generally indoors only, when the shotgun is not desired. If I'm doing a task that requires me to spend most of that time indoors, I'll pack mostly 12.7mm ammo while bringing minimal heavy ammo, and maybe only 2-3 nukes or missiles in case I get a surprise on the way there. If my current task is generally exploring outdoors, I might only bring 2 mags worth of 12.7mm.

And yes, my character is pimped out for max weight. It's a habit I learned from playing so many MMOs in the past; The more weight you can carry, the more loot you can carry. The more loot you can bring back to vendors, the more money you have. The more money you have, the better gear you can afford. I also tend to favor defense above offense, so heavier armor is more important to me than bigger guns. And in order to wear that reinforced kevlar battle armor or what ever, being able to carry minivan on your back helps.




Actually, Pack Rat perk is 70 Barter, not 90. I usually on put 25 points into melee, unarmed, and energy weapons so I had plenty of points early on to ensure I had Pack Rat, Strong Back, etc. In fact, I had both of those perks back around level 25-ish.




You're right, it's not a light load. But I only carry what I need for that one trip. I head out with a purpose, do my task, and RTB for resupply immediately after. I hate having to run around with items in my inventory that I don't need, and I even have a habit of dumping items into a "collection bin" for later retrieval when I'm not busy. That way, I can stash all kinds of loot near a building entrance or unused box, and return later on to haul it back to a vendor or my home storage. When making those supply runs, I leave almost everything at home except for my "Just In Case" gear (one weapon, few stimpacks, little food, etc).



But like I said, different people will have different opinions of weapons and equipment. I run into the same thing in the real world when it comes to discussing firearms and tactical equipment with fellow soldiers or LEO's. If it works well for you, then by all means use it. But from my own experience with the Bozar, it just feels like a red-headed step-child that can't fit in no matter where it tries.

The Bozar was semi-cool because it could chew through armor pretty easily in Fallout 2.

Now all we have is a weapon with a goofy name, can't penetrate armor, inaccurate, and scoped while inaccurate. It also looks kind of fugly cause it looks like a AA-12.

Handloading rounds is pretty simple. Buy normal 5.56 -> breakdown -> load 5.56 match. Certainly a lot less time intensive than going all the way back to Novac just to restock on ammo.



I understand what you're saying... But the thread is asking how to use the Bozar so it doesn't svck. Saying "Well it doesn't meet my needs" can be totally accurate and valid, but it's kinda missing the point of this thread, ne?

But the AA-12 is beautiful. :wub:

http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/images/39651-3-1297584251.jpg Cheatingly deadly, but not pretty :hehe:

I'd rather have the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Pancor_Jackhammer_%28Fallout_2%29.

Not me. The Jackhammer would have a slighly higher damage from the longer barrel, but the AA-12 has a higher rate of fire and larger mags for a much higher adjusted reload DPS.

-Gunny