Everything that wasn't full of explosions or gunfights was a plot twist.

Tranquility Lane and the end of the game at the purifier, off of the top of my head.

Kinda feel obligated to point out that the MQ of Fallout 1 involves you in combat pretty heavily as well.

Tranquility Lane was cool, purifier was just a fancy battleground, but the entire premise was still stolen from FO1.
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1940892

I'm not exactly clear as to how that's a plot twist, actually.

"Plot twist: A plot twist is a change in the expected direction or outcome of the plot of a film, television series, video game, novel, comic or other fictional work." I had no expectations prior to going into Tranquility Lane that were reversed by that simulator. In any case, what's wrong with a well-executed plot twist?

Yeah, the purifier was a battleground, which is why I referenced the interaction between Sarah, the player and the companions at the end, not the run there with Prime.

you edited you post, i edited mine.

"Plot twist!" still happens to be in yours, though.
In any case that quote was in my initial response.

Lyons's interaction with the player is also a good bit of drama in the MQ.

Is that right? How is that known, Steam stats or something? (Just curious mind. I was under the impression that was true for most games anyway.)

The verbal pat on the back that suddenly became a call to action, yeah.

I was more so referring to his discussion of what's been going on in the area and what the Brotherhood itself is doing there, and how he's broken with the BoS out west.

In my opinion FO3's got nearly as much good non-combat dialogue as the main quest of Fallout 1 (haven't fully finished FO2 yet so can't speak to that); while the Master is a tough act to follow, the rest of the MQ (Vault 15, Necropolis, Mariposa) stack up against FO3's elements (Tranquility Lane, Lyons, John Henry Eden, etc) pretty evenly in my eyes.

Only reason I rate it as "nearly" is because the Master doesn't really have an equal in FO3; Eden doesn't quite stack up against him.

Both games were really good, and although i'll admit that New Vegas was more ambitious, Fallout 3 was better crafted. The world design/layout and the atmosphere just felt more complex, realistic and complete. The Washington ruins were amazing while the strip was pretty freaking pathetic in comparison. Also the story in New Vegas is still VERY linear, it just gives you different perspectives of the same events. Finally the conclusion in New Vegas was lame in comparison to Fallout 3 (even though in FO3 you essentially just watch deus ex machina do it's work).

But the writing was better in NV

Fallout 3 was just explosives and shooter ala Michael Bay every second


We are talking about Las Vegas. its not so awesome like Washington DC. neither California was, and if we are talking about ambience, 200 years passed since the great war, but everything is destroyed and that green tint, also, none of the 4 main games was realistic none of the 4 main games give you a complete and accurate map of their respective locations. DC, in FO3 is smaller compared to the real life DC

Linear? you can join 4 different factions

In FO3? the BOS. even if you dont like it or if you want to join the Enclave or if you decide to dont help anyone, nope, the BOS

And care to explain how the ending was !ame?


it was better than Optimus Prime doing all the friggin job with lasers

The point about FO3 being "all explosions and bullets" has been addressed, I believe; there are certainly moments in the MQ (at least as much as Fallout 1) that place emphasis on interesting dialogue rather than guns and bullets flying.

The charge about New Vegas being linear to a degree as well is understandable, because you're essentially doing more or less the same MQ for every faction, just from a different perspective. I definitely agree that NV is less linear than any Fallout game to date, but just pointing out why that claim is grounded in a reasonable belief.

As for the dam battle not being as epic as Liberty Prime, I place the blame for that on Gamebryo being unable to render the battle at the scale it should have been fought at; that said, the B-29 bombing run and the Vertibird strafing attack were awesome.

Urrr, no. neither Eden nor Autumn holds water comparing to the Master. Fallout 1 also have a lot more talking (like at least 10 times?) involve in a "canon"playthrough. Then there is the "canon" Russian spy girl play through which heavy focus in stealth and you don't see any explosion or gun shots except for destroying Cathedral and the Master. Needless to say, all the explosions and bullets are optional in FO1.


You are effectively doing a whole different quest even if they have the same title by changing your preceptive as you would be fulfilling different objectives. The only one stays the same is Valore!, but even then you don't need to do all sub-quest for it.


Prime "battle" isn't a battle at all; and after he crossed the bridge the Enclave just gave up, and the player have to wait for Prime to "neutralize" the force fields.

Statcom in Broken Steel is a battle, but then it stuff up as story progress.

How is it so difficult to talk about these two games, no matter what we're discussing, without it devolving into a big argument?

I don't think the writing really was that much better. Neither game was exactly pulitzer prize material.

Yes the game was very linear. Firstly the whole starting section of the game runs linearly. You essentially are forced to go south (any other direction ends in your untimely demise) and until you hit the strip you are doing the same things pretty much, no matter what faction you plan on joining later. Once you have joined your chosen faction, you do pretty much the same thing, which is a big list of friends to gather up with a few slightly unique quests in between (and i do mean slightly... for example protecting the NCR president vs killing him, still the same scenario).

FO3 gives you pretty good reason to join the BOS. It is not just a case of "HEY! we're the BOS, join us!". It's a matter of teaming up with the only group capable of helping you retake the water purifier and finishing your fathers work. And if you don't want to finish your father's work? congrats you can leave the citadel and finish your MQ then and there.

And you DIDN'T think the ending was lame? Take the NCR ending for example, you go and speak with your C.O. before all of a sudden it's time to fight, with little build up to the climix. You run around killing waves of a few weak enemies, a poorly scripted bombing occurs, and then you run along the dam steam rolling past the enemy "army" which with the rangers who follow you, you basically outnumber! Finally when you attack the tiny little Caesar camp (not even the main fort... missed opportunity or what?) you get treated with a final "epic" battle with Caesars entirely undeveloped right hand man, not even the big pin himself! "Hey look it's that guy... well he's dead now... oh what's that? game is over? okay then".

As a final note, i felt i spent more time running around with my gun out in New Vegas then in FO3. From Good Springs to Nipton there are hardly any quests present at all that don't involve you killing a horde of powder gangers or ants and gecko's.

Yay this turned into another FO3 vs. FNV!

Huzzah, great work people.

*sniff* Proud of mah boys.

I'm in retail, so I can tell you that the initial sales of New Vegas were largely due to the size of the Fallout 3 fan base. The pre-publicity made it look like it would play like F3. That's why millions of casual players, to whom Obsidion and Bethesda are just words you click by, snapped it up.

It takes a week or so for 'word of mouth' to begin affecting sales. Unfortunately the buzz on New Vegas was centered on it's bugginess.

Sales may reflect publicity and casual playability but they rarely reflect lasting quality. We're going to have to wait and let history be the judge.

Yeah, let the Mods lock this thread

Who cares? I certainly not!

But there was more freedom than FO3 Besides, what if I love the Enclave?

This

(Alex, Let it go, and let history, fact, and figures in the end be the Judge, not word of mouth and hearsay, let it be.)

(As for the Enclave, Enclave General will find you later over that one.) :whistling:

If you disguised yourself as a member of Children of the Cathedral and had high enough science skill you could blow both Cathedral and Military Base without shooting a single bullet. You would miss great dialogue with the Master and Lieutenant, but option for non combat solution was there.

Edit: Same can be said about every part of main quest, for example in Necropolis you could take water chip by killing all ghouls or you could repair water pump for them.

Not always

You can detonate the bomb in the cathedral without engaging combat

And you can start the self-destruct sequence in Military Base without ever meet Lou

powder gangers, giant ants and geckos, all those enemies are so weak once you're leveled up a bit, you never even have to stop for those things, that entire left side of the map that goodsprings is on doesn't have any real threats unless you go out of your way, like near the giant scorpions or the few reavers near that radiated shack, that left side of the map isn't all that dangerous, powder gangers are level 1 enemies that never get any tougher, i have only even seen ceasers legion on the left side of the map twice in the two months i played new vegas.