So will camouflage (or invisibilty) work with a spell again which makes you invisible?

I hope there are other ways now like wearing clothes or armor with green leaves and branches and such. And maybe some other ways.

What do you guys think?

Well if you have a spell you wouldn't need to wear colored armor. Better yet give armor camouflage properties (we could do that in oblivion right?). No leaves, no branches, no snow.

Most likely.



Clothing most definitely needs to affect the success of stealth.

[edit]

And armor/footwear of course.

But what if you need a high magic level for invisibilty?

Wouldn't clothes then be usefull for people who do not use magic that much?

(not to say I don't use magic, I love it and use it much times.)

Well, you could look like some http://www.solware.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ghille_suit.jpg, but I'm guessing there won't be any real swamps so they'll go for a more universal http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/Predator%20Stealth%20Tech%20Camo.jpg kinda cloaking magic.

Yeah I would like something like that (your first picture)

But the second on e ''cloak'' is awesome aswell.

I really doubt you'll be able to wear a ghillie suit... especially since magic makes way better camouflage.

there was a mod that fixed how you at least appeareed using different degrees of chameleon (I think it was called No Refraction whatever), which did an awesome job by eliminating the total invisibility you had even at low Chameleon effects. People could barely see there own weapons.... This mod fixed that alright. Could stay like this and then move to complaint number 4,834.

No more 100% chameleon please... way too tempting to use.

They probably gonna add the new one from metal gear solid...

correct. Beth can do better than think "whoever does NOT want to be 100% immune, do not use it".

Reflect Spell
Reflect Damage
Resist Magic
Chameleon
Resist Element

These things must have a max in terms of stuff you are wearing. Wanna be 100% resistance to magic, sorry, create a spell that consumes all your mana and be immune for 20 sec....

Nah, there was something else me and my friend found on 360 like a week or two before people started talking about it on the interwebz. If you had a full suit of chameleon......and I mean everything, take one piece off, like a glove or something and put it back on and it makes you completely transparent you can't see your weapons. This resulted in another glitch/bug..........



So I don't know what this dude is talking about. But anyways after staying fully chameleon for too long, I dunno a few hours and then making yourself visible again finally after all that time enemies wouldn't even notice you if you attacked them, they'd just stand there looking stupid and you are completely visible.

Just make a side quest reward it. They didn't make this level of chameleon accessible to the average player and it should be. It's a single player game not an MMO and besides who doesn't want to look like the predator but better.

Am I the only person who hates Chameleon? Sure its super effective, even at lower percentages, but the visual effect just makes me want to stab myself in the eye.

But with that mod it went alright, really. I think it only became a power concern wearing > 50%.

I must say, reflection, absorption, and resistance stuff did break the game alittle if you achieved 100%. However working toward that goal is the players choice, and I believe that Bethesda should leave it up to the player on how strong they want their characters to be.

I hope we would not have percentage as a parameter of chameleon and Invisibility that would not work as 100% camouflage.

I hope we have stealth or camouflage power of spells combined stealth ability and the bonus added by what we have worn and the environment light and the noise that we make by our actions and our foot wear, then it should be compared with the sight power or keenness of the opposition which might be affected by the power of blindness spell and or a sight boost as well.

If combined camouflage power is greater than combined sight power of the opposition, then we can go by undetected, and the more the difference between those calculation, the less likely it would be for us to be detected.

But ion the other hand if we lack enough camouflage, to surpass the sight power of the opposition, then we are likely to be caught, and the more alarmed that they are the more keenly they look at their surrounding area, and their line of sight cone also affect their sight power, so objects in the middle of the sight cone are better seen than the objects in the edge of their sight cone.

The higher level monsters and bosses and the like should have more powerful sights and keenness, so you might be able to pass those clones easily, but you have to be wary of their boss and his body guards.

So if we sum it up, then there should be nothing like complete invisibility, but the combined effect of your spells, stealth skill, worn equipment, environmental parameters and your actions, compared with the combined effect of the opposition's sight/keenness power, their affecting spells and buffs that would affect sight, and their alarm state, and line of sight., would result in your chance of success when evading the opposition.

Edit: These are the parameters.

Stalker:
Sneak skill + Camouflage spells + Worn gear + Environmental effects + Action

Opposition:
Keenness + Blindness or Detect spells + Alarm state + Line of Sight

Environmental effect is the ambient light of the point where the stalker resides, and the fog effect and the like.

The Alarm state can be like this:

• Unconscious: Can not detect anything. :sleep2:
  
• Distracted: Attention caught by something else. :violin:
  
• Unaware: Idle, whistling, mumbling and the like... :whistling:
  
• Alarm level 1: Heard a sound, and looks toward the direction. :shifty:
  
• Alarm level 2: Saw a something and comes looking for it. :stare:
  
• Alarm level 3: Find something bad like a corpse and start actively searching. oo:
  
• Alarm level 4: Found the target but lost it and looking for it. :flame:
  
• Alarm level 5: Actively pursuing/atacking the target. :gun:
  
• Alarm level ?: Fleeing from the target. :bolt:

And each alarm state affects the sight power or keenness of the pursuer, so for instance in a scenario:

You can enter a bandit cave and use camouflage to pass a few of them, but as soon as you knock a bows on the ground, they might look at it and walk toward the place, and then catch you, because of higher kennness...

I kinda like the idea, but there should be a way to be supreme at stealth. There were spells however that you straight didn't use if you had a bunch of chameleon gear and the cowl became obsolete too, you didn't need to use it.

Just the idea that you go through all that trouble to still be detectable. I just don't like the idea of having to develop an entire character around one idea, and in this case that is stealth.

Sphagne, you never fail at delivering effective means to optimizing game mechanics, I tip my hat good sir :thumbsup:

This is the difference between specializing and being a Jack of all trades, and master of none.

I like to specialize for every character, for replay-ability, but some like to be "Master of all" for each character.


Thanks, pal.

This TES fan has been a programmer himself, and knows what can be done and what is not worth the try, and has thought about these matters for years now.