Hey, I'm hoping someone can help me, I'm not up to date with all the press releases and Skyrim info that is floating around on the internet but I keep reading about the replacement of attributes with "perks". So I was just thinking, how will the world of Skyrim work without attributes?

What I mean is, how are they going to address the situations from the old TES games that required attributes to work?? Or have I missed something??

here's my take on how the system works like:

attributes like strength, athletics and etc are now merged with the 3 core attributes and 18 skills, what i mean is, attributes have gone from being directly manipulated by the player to being indirectly manipulated.

examples:
-your character becoming stronger by increasing martial skills (one handed, two handed and hand to hand) mimicking the "strength" attribute
-your character being able to sprint or hold his breath for a longer period of time by increasing the core attribute of stamina mimicking the "athletics" attribute.
-your character becoming more persuasive by increasing the speechcraft skill mimicking the "personality" attribute.


of course this is just speculation but to me it seems the most likely to happen

I don't understand the question. What exactly are you asking? Attributes have been removed. Perks are in.

Basically the 8 attributes have gone, this is because all the attributes can fit into either strength( or health), magicka or fatigue, so instead of it being confusing it has been simplified e.g.

If you are a mage and want to raise your magicka you do that
you dont have to raise your intelligence/willpower to raise your magicka

I'm convinced every attribute thread from this point forward is a troll attempt. You can find three of them on the first page practically at any given time.

everything that attributes did are still in the game, just in other places.

What I'm getting at is say I needed 80 security to open a door in Morrowind, how have these situations been approached in Skyrim if we have no attributes??

Attributes like strenght and intelligence are gone. Skills are still in.

So how are the skills going to be governed without their supporting attributes??

Are you really asking? Activate ur imagination.
They just do.

It is pretty simple. Skills are governed by health, stamina, magicka, and perks. Plus various other modifiers like fortify, absorb, damage, and drain.

You use them, they'll raise.

Skills weren't really governed much by attributes before, they just gave some bonuses for the rolls, you couldn't see on the stat screen.

and that's not all.

for example (just as a speculation of how it could work without attributes):

"strength" could be upgraded through skills. what i mean is, for each point gained in a skill pertaining to one handed two handed or hand to hand, the damage value of the character would go up.

1 point up in one handed skill = 1% more melee damage.
1 point up in two handed skill = 1% more melee damage.
1 point up in hand to hand skill = 1% more melee damage.

this would mean that a one handed warrior at 100 skill points would do double melee damage

if this character also specialized in two handed weapons, this warrior would do triple damage with melee attacks.

and a character that spent his time honing all his martial skills would be able to do 4x times the damage than of an inexperienced warrior. (sneak attacks did 6x times or more in oblivion so i don't think 4x damage for a master melee warrior would be overpowered)

Attributes are gone...on the rational that people only used Attributes to boost skills and H/M/(F)S (Health, magicka Fatiuge which is now Stamina)

the only thing in the game are H/M/S, Skills + Perks and Look of the character as far as character customization is concerned, there are no perks for H/M/S Todd has said repeatedly that 280 Perks are for Skills FULLSTOP when you see the menu Stars you see SKILLS and the PERKS not perks for H/M/S, nothing more you raise your H/M/S every level and pick what perks are unlocked at the time depending on Skills and player level, Raising your H/M/S has not been stated to do ANYTHING more than raise the value of each, no increasing speed, no increasng resistances no increasing strenght nothing, just the Value, and until Todd says otherwise such is purely conjecture.

Why this is troubling.


Vampires and werewolves becamse exceptionally stronger in Attributes when they are turned, your health, power of attack, speed, all of this got stronger, you gained resistances and weaknesses and NO skill did not increase because you were a Vampire/werewolf

Potions and spells also attributed to Attributes, Certain monsters were dangerous because they sapped your strenght or made you slower, Diseases also effected attributes as well.

so instead of compounding and revamping attributes and their flaws and prior games, Beth and Company decided to cut them out, and give a half assed rational that they are "cutting out the middle man" which I certainly am aware of is Bullsh**, hopefully though Hopefully the aspects that governed Attributes are still in the game somewhere so that modders can take a whack at them since Skyrim did have Attributes early in developement.

I love Bethesda for taking out attributes. Not sure about the guy above me....:shrug:

Inb4 a Dragon-dork.

Players can be stronger and simply faster. Think Mass Effect maybe.


This. I don't understand how gameplay will work.

No. Skyrim will be nothing like Mass Effect.

I never understand Comments like these, nowhere has people been more vocal about attributes until now, it wasnt even a Complaint and didnt stop a darn thing everyone who enjoyed oblivion enjoyed it, never until this freaking year do i see what i percive as Bandwagoners talking about how great it is that attributes are gone when it wasnt even a complaint for 5 YEARS. :confused: :facepalm:

attributes aren't really needed for those effects though, they can just do something akin to this:


upon transformation to werewolf/vampire, your character does 50% more damage, take 25% less damage, have 25% more running speed.

monsters could do attacks that make you character weaker like, doing 50% less damage, etc etc for other effects.

I think that people forget how the statistics can be directly manipulated instead of going through an intermediary, like attributes.

Who said there won't be perks under skills that will add things attributes did, like a encumbrance perk under Mercantile or a magic resistance perk under a magic skill?

Witcher haven't used the traditional numbered attribute system, there attributes mostly worked like skills. The game still had alchemy and different working potions in it. Speed is still calculated somewhere and so is damage, and they could still be tweaked by certain effects.

As for a real working attribute mod... good luck, I doubt one will come out before the script extender, and I doubt one will come out in the next year...

Sorry, but in My case, I don't want my character getting weaker when he didnt have strength "in the Traditional sense to begin with" gonna have to pick your poison, because the rational going on here is, a players strenght increases with Skills so I could be dealing increased damage for both Blades and Blunts....is the game going to pick between the two? is it going to "drain my skill " which was what magick did? what about my perks? do I lose them as well?

Personally I don't want wasteful perks that do +5 to One handed blades, I'd like a robust and GAME CHANGING perk that allows me to stab and parry weapons not +5 to blades which the same people who don't like attributes have been cheering about not farming for +5's anymore.

Beceause...Mercantile was for reducing prices and getting better bargains if your going that route, your talking about New fish that wasnt even stated and is in the grounds of revamping skills to do different things, and is that not what I've been talking about for Attributes?

Because Magick consists of 5 schools...and if you took a look at the skill screenshot you'd see how much of and fallicy it would be putting magick resistance perks under every school.


But as many said before witcher 2 came about, this isnt witcher conjecture.

if attributes were once in game, I don't see why it would be difficult

don't really understand these, could you elaborate?

In your prior post you said Creatures and enemies could reduce the players strenght, I stated that I rather not have my strenght drained when I couldnt effect it in the first place, and even more so the game would have to differentiat from -what- strenght its taking from, since people are sepculating there are seperate perks for damage increases per skill (perks don't jump and effect other skills, just their respective skills..I should have to elaborate on this (p.s not directed at you cobra)

this Differentiated Drain of Skills was specific to Drain -Skill- Spells in Oblivion and all games before it, and in your addition to the matter it would have to effect all melee weapons which are different skills