None of the OP's plan would ever work because of the endemic problems in the NCR to begin with. Kimball and Oliver got into power because they're of the prevailing mentality in the NCR currently: Hawkish Imperialistic Jingoism. Pragmatism is not their strong suit. That's why Hsu is stuck being a desk jockey at McCarran and Colonel Ballbuster Moore is at the Dam, and Oliver is the general instead of Hsu. Just look what happens to Colonel Hsu when he tries the velvet glove instead of the mailed fist in dealing with the Kings.

That's why the NCR needs its nose bloodied. Kimball needs to survive his boneheaded PR stunt (to keep him from becoming a martyr and to personify the folly of hawkism), Oliver needs to die (to put the fear of death back into the hawks in the NCR), and the NCR needs to GET OUT.

House, or better yet Indie, is probably the best ending for the NCR in the long run. Covering for Hanlon also helps too, as that results in him getting fed up with it in the epilogue and rides a wave of Kimball disapproval all the way to the Redding senate seat. :toughninja:

Okay Lt. Andronicus/Zero, hope you like martyring yourself when you become the monster like Prince Kurirugi...

The only endemic problem is with as you said Kim and Oliver. They're bad leaders, bad managers, bad officals, and that shows through their stragety. But just because the leaders are ineffective doesn't mean the system is per say. The NCR doesn't NEED to lose they NEED to change stragety.

To everyone talking about the Fiends.

Listenthe fiends are A problem but they aren't THE NCR's problem. When dealing with the Legion they need every troop from Mccaran down I-15 securing for safe passage, taking on the BOS/signing a peace treaty, killing Tabith and setting up a pirate radio station. And this speaks to Helios One also, they have a limited number of resources, a limited amount of troops and could use them on more productive things. Remember how the quarry is key to foritifing bases? Or how the railroad along I-15 is key to rapid deployment? Or how Primm is the second largest city in the game and a major tourist trap? Those are more important than an ineffective base south of Vegas. And I would argue that's its not even the policy that's the reaosn they can't handle the Fiends, it's because the Fiend's are good emenies.

Go to youtube and watch some endings where the NCR goes against the Fiends. EVEN though Mccaran is their largest base, EVEN though the fiends have no intellegence networks in the base, EVEN though it's arguably the most heavlily fortified base they have, EVEN though they have power armored troops, they STILL lose massive numbers of troops. So why not send those troops to dealing with I-15 instead of trying to secure outer vegas. And even IF the NCR did bring down the fiends, now what? Westside still hates they don't have enough troops for security, the NCR squatters are still coming, Freeside is under King control and they hold general contempt for them anyway.

What's the best way to gain support from the Vegas population? Show them how weak they are WITHOUT the NCR. Show them what happens when you don't have the troops there, when you don't have Big Daddy Two headed bear. While at the same time you've secured Goodsprings, Primm, and Nipton and have boosted the economy. By the time the BOS is done, the railroad is finsished, Tabith is gone, and I-15 is secure, you'll be in a much better position to Annex Outer Vegas communities.

I'm sorry I have to say one more thing about Helios One.
A. All the troops at Helios one could be more effectively used securing Novac
B. Used in keeping Highway 93 free from raiders, and mutants. Remember Golf, Forlorn, Hoover Dam? All are mainly supplied by 93.
C. Take back Nelson reinforce the offensive campign

Besides that there are risk with the place
A. You need at least Rangers to clear out the basemant to operate it. Mind you they could be doing more productive things like taking on the BOS, or Tabith, or Cottonwood etc. It's an unnecceracy risk
B. After it's up and running there's only one specialist to run it and he's not going to actitave the weapons systems
C. The Legion want it, the BOS want it and with no troops in Novac it gets even easier for a raiding party

So why not just scavenge the place? It's not worth it. Highway 93 and Nelson are more important.

I would offer mr house membership of the NCR. He would still have securitrons and he would be alllowed to continue with his plans to build shuttles and go into space, but NCR calls the shots. If he refused, i would have him assasinated and put the ambassador in charge of the strip

I would scrap helios one and the NCR already has power, and the troops are needed elsewhere, and its just a target for the legion or brotherhood.

Also i would make the khans stop supplying drugs to the fiends, or to rig the drugs to be much more toxic, killing every fiend that used it.

lol yah really dont dis the rangers.

If it means the destruction of the NCR....

LOL your kidding right the Fiends as a threat thats a joke if i have ever seen one. They could LITERALLY send a group of like 3or4 NCR vetern rangers in there and kill them all and not come out with a scratch and dont even get me started on the Powder gangers they cant even take one .357 magnum round without dying they are barley a problem and the NCR is to lazy to deal with them.

I like how you contradicted yourself. In the first paragraph you go on about how the Fiends aren't a problem but in the second you then go on about how they're a massive problem for the NCR at McCarren, if you take out the key Fiend leaders they'd soon fall apart anyway, Motor Runner was the only thing keeping Fiends from wandering into Westside and being gunned down by the militia there.

Also I swear you're prejudiced against Helios One for god knows what reasons... Nelson is more important? Nelson can provide power to the entire New Vegas area and also double as a nigh-undefeatable super weapon?

An alliance with BoS and allow BoS scribes and knights to maintain Helios as well as having Paladins guarding it pokes a hole in your theory. The remainder of the troops stationed at Helios can therefore be moved to more key positions.

When it comes to house it's really quite simple.

By the time the second battle comes I-15 to the Quarry will be NCR terrority and everywhere basically to Novac would be too. I doubt the NCR would lose the second battle with the Legion after a good artilley bombing of Legates Camp and mass scale invasion of Fortification Hill. I'm talking Forlorn, Dam, Nelson, Novac troops into it. In any case after the NCR dealt with the Legion more or less resources would be turned to Outer Vegas. Firstly kill off the remants of the Great Khans, that would be simple enough since they basically are stuck in a no exit Canyon like at Bittersprings. With the drug market for the Fiends gone, they would soon lose their edge and probably minds. Organization would break down and the I-15 troops could be moved in to deal with the leaders and Valut 3. With the Fiends gone, massive numbers of Westsiders are probably dead by now and it would be easy to annex West and North slums into the republic.

Begin mass scale aid programs and free food that can be rapidly moved to the slums through I-15 by caravan traffic which is more or less smooth. Freeside and Vegas itself are harder but not impossible to deal with. Honestly I'd just let the Treaty of Vegas stand and have the Rangers kill off the Kings. With the whole region under there control more or less just build power for years. Remember House won't have any new robots from fortification hill since Caesar will probably have destroyed it once he caught Benny. That said in the long term the House loses, his robots can't self repair and aren't very strong when compared to wave after wave of NCR soldiers. House would be dealt with slowly but surely. Renegotate the Treaty of Vegas years later and if it doesn't work out take over the town.


Ok I've said this alot but I'll resay it.
THE RANGERS HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO. Literally Cottonwood, BOS, Tabith...ok you know forget it I've already said everything there is about the Fiends. Point is this, more important things to do.

yes really Helios One gives POWER that is vaulable to the wasteland not to mention the NCR also. Nelson is the least important position for the NCR.

:mellow:

i dont get it

How in the hell is Nelson the least in important?
A. It's the most important forward operating base the NCR has, faster way to get reinforcements during the Second Battle
B. It allows the Legion a chance at Helios one and Novac
C. It's allows the Legion to give a nice middle finger to Forlorn Hope and decrease moralle
D. It allows the Legion to disrupt Highway 93 supply and information lines

Why don't I think Helios is that important?


And lets just add this
D.Novac is the third largest city in the game, major source of income.

Listen all your comments for the past few post I've already answered

Who voted Kimball into office?

That's the endemic problem. The NCR has gone full Warhawk. Never go full Warhawk.

None of your plan would work because it's pragmatic. The Kimball Administration is not pragmatic, it is more interested in glory and nepotism. That's why little miss jingo Moore is in charge of the dam defenses and Oliver is parading about and the more level-headed Hsu is riding a desk back at McCarran, and Hanlon is stuck lording over a golf course.

Well Kim got voted in because the President about one before him was weak and let NCR citizens get killed in the Mojave. He was voted in but because the NCR wasn't effectively dealing with security issues. And also I'd argue that only Kim and Oliver are the ineffective leaders. How's Moore so bad? The woman gets [censored] done, she's the one who has you kill Caeser, the BOS, House etc under the NCR way. Besides it's not as if shes' the one pushing for "wait and see" that's Oliver.

Calm down.

lol and Kimball doesnt seem that bad...

They are a serious problem....thier existence undermines the reputation of the NCR as being capable of maintaining order. Why should the people of the Mojave accept NCR rule and pay taxes if NCR cannot deal with a bunch of armed junkies? Worse, what if they get the idea that since the Fiends can defy NCR with impunity, then they can too? While they are a serious problem.....they are also a problem that is easily solved. Send in the Ranger Vets backed by the Army to kill Motor-Runner's lieutenants and their retinues, clearing the way to fill in the Vault 3 entrance ramp with concrete and leave the rest of them entombed inside. The whole operation would only take a few days and immediately brighten the NCR's tactical situation. The whole situation along the Long 15 is a testament to Oliver's unsuitability for his job....between the Powder Gangers and the Deathclaws closing off the best route for traders and NCR logistics to reach McCarran and the Strip it leaves one to wonder if Oliver is a Frumentarii like Capt Curtis as it's hard to believe someone could screw up this bad by accident.

Personally, firing Oliver and replacing him with Hsu would probably be the single best thing to bring about a NCR victory.....90% of thier problems are being caused by either Oliver's stupidity or his inability/unwillingness to keep Col. Moore on a tight leash so she doesn't make more enemies for them unnecessarily.

Kimball has made some awfully terrible choices during his presidency.

Heheheh.... Did you know that if you subscribe to Hsu's more level-headed approach to dealing with the Kings, he gets the axe, even though it works? Also... Moore doesn't even consider an alliance with the NCR unless you essentially force it on her. She is a dyed in the wool Hawk. She's a "shoot first, don't bother questions" person. Which is even worse than 'shoot first ask questions later'. You may not think it, but Moore is part of the insurmountable obstacle to your plan.

And also, listen to everyone's opinion of Ambassador Crocker. It's not because he's an incompetent oaf, it's because he is trying a more even-handed approach than barging in everywhere like the NCR owns the place, like Moore, Oliver, et al. So he gets politically smeared for it.

If you listen to House, he has a far higher opinion of Hanlon's strategic expertise than Oliver's. So why is Oliver in charge? He's buddies with the President, despite Hanlon and Hsu both being far more capable. The nepotic hawks are in control. Which is why I said none of your plan would work because the leadership isn't pragmatic in the least. No one who would consider such an approach would be in a position to do so.

The pendulum swung too far over to the other side from the previous admin's trepidation.

I'd agree Oliver svcks, but Mccaran itself is unneccescracy. You can't secure I-15 without more troops along that highway, where would they come from? Mccaran. Besides that the Fiend problem is more so secondary, if in the status quo the NCR has a major fortifed base and still would lose massive numbers the Fiends are harder than you all think. Honestly I'm sure the Rangers could take on the Fiends but you know what? I'd rather them take that risk on the BOS, and Tabieth and Cottonwood and keeping the border safe from raiding parties. It's not as if the NCR has unlimited Rangers and there are bigger things to do. And what's wrong with Moore? Like a said that chick gets stuff done.

Also to the reputation thing I'd say this. Right now the slums don't respect the NCR and even after the courier defeated them they don't. That said let the slums take on the Fiends, lose massive numbers of citizens and make it easier for Annexation. That Westside and Northside Militas need to be in a weaker position and having them deal with the Fiends would be that ticket. I also get what your saying about Oliver but why do you assume I'd keep him? I doubt that if I came in and destroyed his whole stragety he'd even want to stay anyway. Besides Oliver and Kim most of the Military is highly comptent. And about the Kings, why not just kill them all? Honestly I like Moore's approach more than the others becasue they leave no lose ends. Why let a gang run Freeside when you can? Why let the BOS exist when they can simply turn on you later? Why deal with that crap when killing them is much more effective and saves time later on. A new paladin or leader of the kings could rise up that's anti NCr and then were are you?

This thread isnt about what you would want the NCR to do, its what you would have them do if you were in charge, not Oliver or Kimdolt, you.

And I'm saying I'd never get a chance because the problem isn't Oliver or Kimball. They're just symptoms. The root problem is that the NCR itself has gone full Warhawk.

I already stated what I'd do, with full consideration that I'd never get the chance to lead the NCR due to the inherent imperialist bent in the NCR. I'd save Kimball's sorry ass so his death doesn't get pinned on the nasty Mojave and so he becomes a personification of the folly of their rampant imperialism (IE: a patsy/fall guy/scapegoat/what have you), I'd off Oliver to put some fear back in all the arrogant hawks and to declare under no uncertain terms that the NCR, as it is currently... svckS.

This proverbial bloody nose to the Republic will put the Hawks in their place and is more likely to allow an even-handed Tandi-like challenger for the presidency to have credibility.

I'm thinking on a whole higher level for the NCR than the Mojave.

This is hypothetical, you are in charge, [censored] the rest of them, you are in command of your faculties, in command of your troops, what do you do?

I see the question as contrived as the cliche'd moral dilemma: "A mine car is racing down a track out of control right into a group of people you don't know, do you save them by diverting it into your best friend?"

And the root problem of imperialism run rampant in the NCR is still not dealt with if I just stick to this hypothetical scenario. The mess in the Mojave is a result of it. If you're treating cancer, do you just treat the organs it metastatized to?