My suggestion is this: Any little remnants, in Chicago or Navarro or wherever they are, would become an fanatical terrorist group. They'd infiltrate sociates, assassinate important people and do sabotage. They wouldnt have an actual base rather than some little safehouses/hideouts. They would also recruit young people that have somesort of grudges against the main power in the region yet unknown.

Fix your posts, there's 4 of them

Yeah. Stupid mobile...

Delete when I get home.

Bro if your suggestion the Enclave to become a revolutionary terrorist group inviting everyone that wants to rebel, then you got no idea who the Enclave are. They consider themselves the American Government, them turning from a large scientific group based on securing places from wastelanders and mutants to a terrorist group wouldnt be very realistic.

I see what your saying though, they should not completely die out, rather have them as a minor faction still basing itself on being called the American Government then terrorist rebels.

Large scientific group? Well, whom after the events of Fallout 3 will most likely be alive? Soldiers, soldiers based in the wasteland. And revolutionaries? He said that they essentially became terrorists, because the only ones remaining are fanatics whom support the Enclave agenda. I'm assuming from previous discussions with Old that the Enclave he envisions will basically just be killing and fighting everyone and everything in the wasteland, mainly for a sense of accomplishment for the Remnants and for retribution for the huge numbers of Enclave dead.

The remnants will be bitter and hate-filled, not especially in a mood to just settle-down in the wasteland.

New Vegas the remnants werent exactly going on suicide missions just to kill normal people after they lost countless wars with NCR, BoS etc. I got those old retired [censored]s to fight for me.

I would actually put my money on the Legion to outlast them all.
Perhaps not as "the Legion," but the people themselves. For what it's worth, for all the evils the Legion commits, I think the average Legionnaire is morally above the average NCR citizen. Without the issue of war, the Legion can be selfless, hard-working, honest and self-sufficient. The average BoS or NCR soldier? Not so much...


My suggestion is this: learn what the Enclave is actually all about.

That's because they were old and most have moved on; when they were young they had a very young Arcade Gannon and his mother to protect.

Yeah i feel bad for Arcade to have been raised by crazy american psychos claiming they are saving the country.

No offence Just seriously disagree with the Enclaves ideas of taking care of bussniess. Rather side with NCR, good thing i dont have too. VEGAS BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE

I seriously doubt Mr. Enclave is going to take personal offense at a statement made against a faction in a video game.

He′s name is mr.enclave. Dude!!! video game or not it is clear that he supports the Enclave and their plan of restoring america IN this said video game (fallout )

Well really when you think about it they weren't that bad, it's clear that the Remnants at least - barring Moreno - not tried to force their ideology onto Arcade, even going as far as too sanitise their own involvement within the organisation. Because let's be frank okay, the Remnants are lairs; lying to both the player and Arcade. To quote Captain Kreger, "Sure the leadership was pretty ruthless but we just wanted to civilise things," now let's compare to the actual dialouge of the Navarro patrolmen:

"He's a mutant spy! Take him out, team!"
"As a loyal soldier of the Enclave, I got orders to kill you. Hope you don't mind."
"Die, wasteland scum!"
"You! It's your kind that destroyed this once mighty nation. You're gonna pay!"

And we just happened to run into the only "good" squad of ex-troopers? Given that Kreger tries to pin all the blame on the leadership it's obvious that he's not just speaking for himself and his squad in the regard of "only wanting to civilse things".

Thats what remnants are, and now thats exactely what they are, and they have already been turned into remnants, there is no cohesive fighting force anymore, they can turn into the remnants from new vegas grow old and die, in thier little remnant groups, thats how they go out.

Agreed. It was just Obsidian's method of attempting to make the Enclave "atone for their sins" and appear to look like they're sorry for what they've done.

What the remnant's say, and what the soldiers in Fallout 2 did however, are two completely different things. With the exception of Moreno.

In what way? Richardson and his plan to kill everyone might not have been known to the Enclave soldiers. Does the average grunt on the ground know what the President and his people are planning? Not bloody likely.

I thought you Enclave supporters would like the Enclave remnants. The remnants show they are thinking people, people that don't "just follow orders."

There is the squad of Enclave you can get to support you when you take on Frank.

I disagree.

The fact that (as Mr. Enclave pointed out) most of the soldiery happily shoot wastelanders on sight and believe them to be nothing more than "scum" indicates to me that even if they didn't know about Richardson's plan, they would have gone right along with it.

Notwithstanding their almost universal patriotism and confidence in Richardson and the United States Government.


No not really. I'm rather peeved actually that the only way in which Enclave soldiers can be shown apparently by Bethesda or by Obsidian in a "good light" is if they are rebels.

"Hey these guys did some bad stuff man, but they swore they would never do it again and look now! Their helping Super-mutants! SO BRAVE!"

Moreno and Kreger seem to be the only ones of the lot who are actual Enclave soldiers in that they believed in what they were doing. And even Kreger attempts to excuse himself by saying that "well we didn't really believe in what the leadership were doing." Whitman doesn't seem to care whatsoever and Dr. Henry and Johnson are blatant traitors who flaunt the the death of the Enclave. Arcade is of course......Arcade.

To put it simply, why can't we see the "good" side of Enclave soldiery when they are true-blue loyal soldiers? Moreno is really the only example I can think of thus far, with the possible exception of that soldier in Adams who leaves a holotape for his sister (its nothing special however, just him being worried about being caught smuggling Flamer fuel essentially).

How about instead of "good Enclave soldiers" who left the Enclave and were "brave" rebels for it, why don't we see (for example) loyal soldiers who survived Raven Rock and that lost friends and family members when the base was destroyed? How about an officer at Adams who saw his son/brother/relative/friend cut down in front of him and is now bitter and vows revenge? Why can't we see the human side of Enclave soldiery without them leaving the Enclave because they're god-damn conscious objectors? Why do we have to see them (like in New Vegas) attone for anything?

If the only "humanity" that can be brought into the Enclave soldiers is through making them out to be hippie-rebels like Arcade, then the writers lack creativity. Enclave soldiers are human, show their relationships and human emotions without compromising what the faction actually stands for.

I don't know about Mr. Enclave, but that's my perspective.

As long as i get to kill them again im happy. Things they did to the people i loved in fallout 3 were. unforgiven. I spent alot of time trying to make the wasteland somewhat civilized by saving people, killing muties and slavers and establishing safehouses everywhere i could find, but that wasnt enough when the enclave came. They killed people, people i fought for. No matter if they even have a good side, my expression of them makes me want to murder them with cold blood like they did with the wastelanders. I let the remnants live as they were in their last years, and i respect Arcade as he supports independence too, and the fact that they were the west coast enclave. Dont know alot about them since my PC is completely destroyed (dont ask) and i cant play fallout 1/2/tactics.

Sure. The point however, is to realize that despite how you may totally disagree with them and hate them with a passion, at the core they are human as well, and when you are killing an Enclave soldier you aren't just killing a nameless face. You are killing a son/daughter/uncle/father/friend with relationships, family ties, and a life.

In Fallout 3, this sort of dynamic was non-existant. All the Enclave soldiers (with the exception of differences between men and women) spoke the same, had virtually no dialogue and only served to act as shooting targets for the player.

Kinda like fiends.

I agree with Andronicus, there's absolutely no reason why it shouldn't have been universal knowledge; the loyalty displayed by even the most basic infantry is unwavering and besides, what possible reason is there for them not knowing? Besides from Richardson's State of the Union address:

Memo: State of the Nation
From: President dike Richardson
To: The People of this Great Nation
Subject: The State of the Union Address

Fellow Americans, I have been honored to be the steward that will take the American people back to the mainland to reclaim the United States for its own citizens. We will be the first generation free of the mutant threat in over one hundred years.

It's been a long wait, and the work that has made this possible has been difficult. At times it seemed impossible, however through the brave and tireless efforts of our own head of the Chemical Corps, Dr. Charles Curling, the hour of our salvation is now at hand.

The Project is Richardson's election promise, not some clandestine operation. There is no reason, at all, why it is not common knowledge.


Because that's the only way that Enclave personnel can be shown? They just tried to skip over one of the more basic facts of Fallout - that the Enclave Patrolmen kill everything in sight - so that they could have some more "sympathetic" characters. "We just wanted to civilise things," really Styles? A Navarro soldier is saying this and your defending it? The Enclave are people who follow orders, they are people with perhaps one of the most alien culture's on Fallout; wouldn't that have been more interesting than "We never liked the Enclave really, honest; we're just friends who stick together!" Which if you think about it makes them even more immoral/ammoral, Dasiy Whitman "Just wants to fly," not even because she cares about the Enclave - of course, because who would - and Kreger really just says he wants to be with his friends; so these people still commit all the crimes of the Enclave soldiers in the wasteland but they aren't even doing it because they believe in the cause they're fighting for.


Yeah, and that's a horrifically poorly written segment, Sergeant Granite is apparently and entirely reference character - to something called Sergeant Rock I believe - his dialouge is contradictory to the rest of the Enclave - for a reason I cannot fathom:

"Oh, yeah. Tell me another one. If the reactor's scragged how come the light's are still on? Huh, smartie? Heh, heh, tell me another one."

It's not like everyone on every deck - and even just past the loading screen on the same deck - are saying:

"That's the reactor alarm." - Enclave Citizen

So there's an audible alarm - that everyone recognises - going off on all decks and everyone in the Enclave Control Company is apparently deaf.

Not to mention that he calls you a mutant several times and doesn't think about raising the alarm, fighting back, the first intruder in history on the Oil Rig and you aren't going to do anything? No? My favourite bit is this:

"I don't wanna drown like no rat."

Truly a human reaction to hearing that everything you've ever known, your family, friends, life basically have been destroyed by the person you are [censored] agreeing to help.

They also had a few outposts i could take and or raid from them. I could make their turrets my friend, and look at them while they suffer. Just like i had to do when i watched the various wastelanders killed by them. They were the biggest reason i had 50000 caps in my megaton house.

It's strange but this point of view is never considered. Remember the Austin Powers film where one of the security guards gets killed, it then cuts to his surprise birthday party with his family, wife, son, parents, all waiting for him to turn up. They hear the news that he's been killed and someone says "no one ever thinks about the henchmen". True.

If we (good people like me ) would actually think about the lives of the bad people we are killing (FOR THE LULZ) then we would probably stop killing them, and that would make the world a much much worse place. If bad people have hearths, then they gotta stop be bad, thats how easy it really is.
Now i understand that the Enclave are probably not as cruel as they are shown in fallout 3, but they are the bad guys killing wastelanders, so i am protecting the interest of the 99% (the people of the wasteland) by killing the enclave and establish safehouses in their former outposts.

Well im talking about the faction not the people. The Legion people would possibly be divided into smaller groups and fight eachother, while many NCR cant even take care of themselves.