You seem to place a lot of value on "where" the game starts, as opposed to how you got there. In that case, why not save before you get to the end of the sewer and pretend you were never a prisoner to begin with? Say your character's adventure began in a far-off place, and the mouth of the sewer is where you happen to pick up where they left off. Really, it seems to me as though this totally circumvents the circumstances of the "true" beginning - and invalidates your argument, besides.

I insist that there's no significant difference between being a prisoner in a cell and a prisoner on a prison ship. The differences that you have concocted seem to stem purely from your ability to "imagine" a character's origins - it being more difficult for you in a cell than a boat, but that's a personal issue and is definitely not universal. I, for example, have no problem imagining a good origin in either environment. Why?

Well, ultimately, I think your issue may stem from the same place as alot of Morrowind zealots - you start every experience with Oblivion assuming you'll be disappointed, and then you are. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I find "end of the sewer" as a crappy way of ignoring the flaw of that intro, not to mention I still know it happen.


Mainly, the toon start out in a jail cell as to compare to a prison ship. BIG different. With prison ship, I can cheap my way into getting Morrowind. Jail cell, ya a convicted felone, whether I like it or not. Its pathetic.


Me a Morrowind zealots? HA. Stop assuming people ya do not know clearly. If any intro I would TRULY favor into this matter, it is Daggerfall, and it did the intro "right" in leading the toon into a the main quest and either accept as WELL written biography of the toon, or ignore the written biography and make stuff up along the way. Either way, I find it that Daggerfall wins Openness when ya starting out the game.

Jaywalked

The guards thought I was to ugly to walk the streets

Since when do imperial prison ships let you come on for money? I'm not trying to be arguementative but I've never heard of such a thing, unless its a personal bribe to the guards on that ship? In which case why do they call you prisoner when they were on the journey too and know your not? Or are they worried about the other prisoners telling?

And it's not just the guards who say your a prisoner theres that wierd dream at the start and the blades. I mean it could be the emporer just put you there and didn't tell the guards you weren't a real prisoner but then you wouldn't be paying would you?


and I believe someone mentioned something about being there to follow along with the emporer to help with his assasination?

These two seem as good a reason for not being a prisoner at all as your cheapskate one.
You could also be a cleaner who got stuck.

In morrowind i kicked ever guard in the nuts.

In oblivion i sold skooma to an undercover guard.

My mage took a bet with the Imperial Jailor that he could get out of the Imperial Prison in less than 3 days...
He was planning an elaborate escape using magic, but fortune smiled on him
Now if I could just get that dirtbag to pay up....

The hero of my game Kalak gro-Khaos (cliched name, I know) still finds he cannot remember exactly why he woke up in the damp cell.

He remembers a crowded room, lots of mead and a few shady Argonians reeking of liquid Skooma. I can't tell you more without going into some detail on my character and I don't think this is the right thread for that.

My favorite MW character was actually in prison on an undercover assignment to get information about a potential threat to the Empire from another prisoner. Obviously, the guards couldn't be trusted to know that you were an Imperial Agent, so they treated you just like any other prisoner. When your portion of the assignment was complete, you were "transferred" to Morrowind for another assignment and "released".

In OB, my character was in prison because he was stupid, just like the rest of the story.

My Oblivion Breton Archer was sent in jail after a little bit too hot-tempered discussion with a priest about the Emperors divine right to the crown. Th rest is as they say, history.

My Morrowind Dark Elf got sent to prison for taking shaving the emperor bald and shaving Ocato's
goatte.

Oblivion? My Dumner (again) Went for a meal at the feed bag but was caught eating with someone elses fork and was therefore organized of the Guilotine.

Edit: FOR the Guilotine

Necrophilia

Reminds me of that peculiar lady from skingrad, by the graveyard, all alone, smiling. So I go up to her, ask 'er why she's smilin', she says she's lookin' for corpses. I ask her if she's necrophilic, she says nutin' Mad, mad dark elfs.

So, you're willing to ignore your character being a prisoner in Morrowind, but not in Oblivion? That's pretty selective.

Regardless, I subtract myself from this argument. I'm pretty sure I'm the last person taking you seriously at this point.

Oh good lord...
Does it really matter how selective or not selective his preferences are? He has an issue with starting in prison. Why must a big deal be made about it?



In Oblivion, you most definitively start in prison, as evidenced by absolutely everything around you. You are walled in, locked up, shackled with irons, called "prisoner" by everyone around you for the next 10 or so minutes of the intro tutorial. All the evidences of your senses tell you, "you are in prison." Everything in relation to your progress through the Imperial Subterrane tells you, "you are in prison." And it prolongs it.

In Morrowind, yes, you are on a prison ship. Yet you are not so obviously locked up. You are not shackled. While people do address you as "prisoner," that addressing lasts for less than a minute. And then any real involvement of the "prisoner" part of the plotline simply melts off, disappears, beyond that point, in all perceivable ways. It's far less of a hassle, and it is FAR more flexible and responsive to roleplay that removes the prisoner aspect entirely.

In Daggerfall, you aren't a prisoner or in prison at all! Hooray for Daggerfall; it wins.

As for saving at the end of the sewer grate in Oblivion, that is an outside-of-game-mechanics workaround that does not in the slightest fix the core issue in question.



Either way, in a thread about non-canon player-contrived explanations, why is there a need to dispute or argue over one player's contrived explanation for why they were or were not in jail?

Morrowind: My character bumped into a guard who was in a bad mood, the guard falsely accused him of horrible misdeeds and a chase ensued.
After being captured, he was shipped off to a smelly little fish town. So sad.


Oblivion: An unfortunate case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time, my character was in a market when a band of rogue nords ran by, chased by the guards.
In the commotion, the guards mistook him for one of them and took him away.

i LOL'd sooo hard at this. good sir, you deserve a cookie

I like the idea that I was just walking along the road and the next thing I know I'm knocked out and waking up in jail.

i saw a sign that said free sweetrolls. intrigued, i walked over to the plate of fresh sweetrolls and picked one up. it was covered in a green slime, so i threw it behind me. it landed in front of an imperial watch captain, who picked it up and ate it. a day later he got food poisoning and i got sent to jail for drunkenly asking glarthir where santa is. :celebration:

In Morrowind my character was put in prison because he was framed for a crime he did not commit...

Nah, just kidding. My dark elf was in there for assault with a deadly weapon, assault with a not-so-deadly weapon, and assault with a weapon-which-we-could-not-possibly-believe-was-deadly-but-unfortunately-was. Yeah... oh, and did I mention identity theft?

My nord in Oblivion was guilty of banditry, arson, murder, the whole package, but was arrested when he knocked over a potted plant and tried to put it back up. Apparently touching and smashing other people's belongings is okay as long as you don't use your hands...

Haha, true so very true...

"Each Event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the Hero, there is no Event."

Created directly at that moment to fulfill the role of the Hero.

Arena: Easy. Jagar Tharn knew you were the player character (because you were the only one who didn't speak in Olde English, besides him and Ria Silmane). So he locked you up.

Daggerfall: You encounter that awesome-looking sea monster on the Iliac Bay map, which proceeds to wreck your ship. The cave-in was probably caused by all the ruckus you made chopping down that tree and hauling it inside to start a fire.

Morrowind: I didn't tell an Imperial Guard my name (because he looked like Crassius Curio). He sent me to jail. Jiub mocks me for this shortly afterwards, by asking the same question.

Oblivion: I killed all the potential heirs that Uriel VII's sons had fathered. Seriously. In your fifties and no children?

Let's also not forget that the PC is apparently pretty familiar with the penalties for necrophilia.

My Ob character probably stole an apple and thought the fine was stupid.
my Morrowind character probably beat someone up (he was a bit short tempered)