I'm sorry what is the topic title?And what are the options in the poll?

This is a DEBATE so stances are here to be slammed.

You're basically saying I think it should be X as opposed to Y but I have no grounds to say it should be the case so don't bother trying to debate with me or i'll accuse you of stance slamming

And also saying "I would've" or "It should of been"

is just a way to try enforce your opinion in a debate without backing it up.

Christ man. The topic title is "How do you feel about ghouls outside Vault 12?"

Let's go through this: I stated how I voted (how I feel about the subject), I got questioned and I clarified myself (stating my preferred situation), in comes you with the enthusiasm of a boyscout and what do you say then (in essence, as you said yourself): "You can think as you will, but you make no sense", and then call for debate and hard facts about a case that has been contradicted 4 games ago (as I said). If you want to debate about my ideas about how things should've ( ) been handled, make a [censored] case for yourself, stand up and contradict my points (that I made in this thread already) with yours. Vague ridiculing about what is essentially just a what if-scenario (anymore) without adding any points is really damn hard to argue with anything else but "What the [censored] do you mean?"

And to clarify, I wasn't accusing you of anything, I just didn't see the point in your "you make no sense" claim.

So, I've removed and edited a number of posts. Guys... you're debating the "logic" of a set of circumstances that have never been fully and adequately described, even apocryphally, much less in-game (and notwithstanding pretty much every single installment of the series directly contradicting itself at some point or another.)

Nothing wrong with that, but you've got to keep within the forum rules. That means no flamebaiting, personal attacks, or any other form of insults. It's one thing to debate the topic or someone's points. Even for things to get a little heated. But debate the topic, not another member's credibility. That's not only poor debate skills, but against the forum's rules (and I really don't feel like figuring out how the new warning system works today.)

Just try and keep a sense of perspective on things? Maybe, just maybe the reason that the Great Ghoul Debate has never been categorically solved these past years is because there is no concise and "logical" answer beyond the simple "ghouls function in whatever manner the last people who wrote last game decided they should, and they probably didn't put near as much thought into it as we just did."

There is one ground they all share though, the ghouls became ghouls from radiation from explosives.
Desman, vault 12, the ncr dudes, even in fo3 the town ghouls. The radiation they were exposed to was thw radiation aftermath of explosives. Even the ghoul Mexican got his from the radiation of the bombs that fell on Mexico city. Moria brown and the temple of atom all necome ghouls because of explosions.
Just standing in radiation from radiation plants or waste from barrels etc etc, the people died.

So we are going to debate what the word feel stands for now?

Really it's just another word for an opinion in this context, so you are saying I can't challenge your feels opinion?

What doesn't make sense is the circumstances which I have stated how can you contradict a contradictive scenario?

What makes vault 12 so unique? Intentions or not the devs messed up.... I wait with bated breath.

And Dean Domino? He was at the Madre. No explosions there.

Good chance that the fallout from the great war did even cover the madre. Just because theirs no radiation there dosent mean that the fallout was never there. Look at HH,, the surviver states that that area was covered with lethal fallout after the war for months, but we go there now theres no radiation spots anywhere. No signs of radiation.
we dont no when the red cloud actually escaped enough to cover teh city as well. It was leaking in the notes but wasnt full blown like it is now.

So yes, dean domino really good chance as well became a ghoul due to the fallout from the great war bombs.

That isn't the point about Dean Domino. Of course there was FO.

The question is WHY ONLY Dean. There were other people. Dean the only sole survivor who becomes a ghoul.

The vault with an open door makes it unique. If you want a made up assumption about how the circumstances could've been.... the vault is a pocket where radiation (through the door) piles up and lingers as the air filtration system has harder time to puff it out than it has to get in. Perhaps the incoming and outgoing evened out at some point creating - out of a fluke - very specific, stagnant circumstances for ghouls to be born.

I'd find something like that to be a plausible explanation for why there are no other ghouls; but as we know, that is not the case as ghouls roam around everywhere. But really, the narration could be anything related, or nothing at all - the base idea would still be that these things people call ghouls, are a result of a freak accident inside a vault that was supposed to protect them from such.

Moira wasnt the only one who turned into a ghoul when megaton exploded, the people from the church of atom also become ghouls. Their church is locked up and can only be accessed during broken steel.
Dean was the only survivor because the workers all died and got taken over by the ssuits, and the rich people died from the holograms.
Dean was alive and locked outta the casino he didnt have any protection from the fallout from the great bombs.
All the old school ghouls were created by the fallout of the great bombs and the people who turned into ghouls after the great war and the fallout from those bombs went away were turned into ghouls from explosives that had radiation.

The only names ghoul that isnt accounted for in this theory I just remembered is the ghoul from "u gotta shot them in the head". With him, memory fuzzy but he became a ghoul from ghoul bites or atks?

i actually explained all of these in my theory, i even had a link to trash and gave my reasons why i believed she died. And didn't turn. Too much radiation at a time, her body didn't adapt or mutate. Think water intoxication

unfortunately we have no idea what became of the residence of the Seirra Madre. I explained that a good chunk of them died when the Holograms went haywire for some unknown reason, its assume the maintenance / employees became ghost people. I don't think its explained how Dean survived or got separated.

One thing too note, if you listen to Deans Collar radio before recuriting him he mentions the Courier looks "tasty". Might be 1 clue ˉ\(ツ)/ˉ

Fallout: New Vegas

Proof: Foods radioactive n waters bad bro

Umm wouldn't a normal building with an open door/window have similar effects?

Radiation can only penetrate so much (gamma can go through 1 meter of concrete at most), and w are neglecting an important question.Just how widely open was vault 12's door?

If it was fully open then it may as well just be any where out in the open, this is presuming that the air filtration system would A) would flush out radiation at all (i've never really thought about it)and it would be able to flush out enough of it.

After playing fallout I noticed vault 12's door is wide open and underground in a sewer...how would radiation even get that far underground?

http://www.trueachievements.com/imagestore/0000136200/136220.jpg

Perhaps the door was a glitch and there was a nuclear reactor within the vault that even the ghouls didn't know about. That said reactor gave off radiation and the door had nothing too do with it, kind of like that Theirs a rose and a puddle of water, how did this guy lynch himself Joke. Lore is now fixed, no more fighting.

I agree that radiation is just PART of the equation, but ive also pointed out that a vast majority of the ghouls we no of became ghouls from radiation from explosives.
Now normal radiation from plants or radioactive waste does not as there are several examples of people just dying from being irradiated.
I think its something of what an explosion does to radiation or how the radiation is the byproduct of an explosion that generates the ghouls. That the explosives add or delete a component from radiation thay turns.
That AND the fact that the fev that was released years ago basically mutated everything or acrewed up everythings dna. The mutated or screwed up dna doesnt even have to be visible but a passive thing. Hell it could be that the fev that was released that basically infected everythinh and their spawn/children meaning it gets passed on thru generations could very well explain the game mechanic of why most people can take a bullet to the head and still go about their business lol.
So u take the fev mutated dna and add radiation from an explosion that bc of the explosion added or deleted a compound from the radiation and bam u get the formula for ghoulification.

But then theira that one ghoul crowley that became a ghoul because of ghoul attacks that throws everything into a big pile of mess. Unless ghoulification can also ne transfered like werewolf rules.....

You certainly have no imagination at all.

The door was just as open as it needed to be for the ghoulification to commence. There's nothing more it needs.

Ummm maybe some radiation me thinks?

Presuming all the radiation is gamma radiation would it be able to go through the concrete of the sewers and the ground above it?

"You certainly have no imagination at all. " that would be hard to imagine ba doom dosshh.

i just realized there is no way for the FEV to infect the ghouls of vault 12 since they were underground. Only radiation could infect them

Radiation = Ghoulification

No FEV needed

Once again, you're giving a simple fact way too much attention than it actually needs. There is no need for a correct answer to this problem. You can say "Ummm, some radiation" all you want, but that doesn't change the premise in any tactile way. What you need to do, is to contradict me, in effect to come up with a scenario that says my assertios are false.

OK no radiation how does ghoulification occur without it?

In V12 that is, because it seems a plausible possibility and as bad voodoo said wild f.e.v may be out the equation as well.

I have said there needs to be radiation. Hence Vault 12 is unique in giving such circumsatances.

"Presuming all the radiation is gamma radiation would it be able to go through the concrete of the sewers and the ground above it?"

Doss it matter, the door was open for all radiation to get in.

Yeah underground that you access via a man hole cover surrounded by a concrete building.

I still don't see the relevance. All radiation gets in through the door, all radiation lingers despite manholes and such. What do you mean?