"Gamma rays can be stopped by a sufficiently thick layer of material"

I.E the concrete roof and the earth above it, which ironically acts like a vault and protects the vault.

Well could.

That's true, but how does it relate to the subject in any way?

Are you "quoting Wikipedia" just to show me you know about things?

Why would I quote wiki to show THAT I know things?

I quoted it because i wasn't a 100% sure.

Well because V12 is underground.

This has been a good debate but I have things to do so i'll continue this in a few hours.

So you were "quoting Wiki" afterall (I just made a guess because your posts appeared too... knowing)? That's telling...

Anyway, you called me out for a debatre on a certain matter, I gave you one, and now you withdraw with an excuse? Okay, you have things to do, as do I, we'll pick this up again when the time comes. Have a nice evening.

http://www.gamesas.com/user/697370-john-henry-eden/, let me give you an advice (in all good intentions). You are young, you're enthused to make out with your points, thats understandable. Now I, me, am not the best at english (it's my second language) so my points may at times seem odd or insensible - and easy to come against. But know that I'm not stupid despite being seemingly vulnerable to easy jabs, and if you ever feel the need to go against someone like Gizmo or Okie or Tagaziel, do your homework beforehand and understand what is being said. Just a friendly advice.

If radiation could reach them, so could FEV. Both have the same mode of transport.

If the Emclave could kill everyone on the planet with their FEV, FO 2, including those in vaults, then so could the Wild FEV.

Technically, wild FEV, which became airborne, could probably travel easier than radiation.

Okay I gave a theory on its radiation and callout from chemical bomb explosives and not just standard waste radiativity that changes people into ghouls and ill even throw in wild fev in the mix as well.

But what about Crawley? Can u become a ghoul from ghoul attacks? Because hes the only ghoul I can think of that didnt become a ghoul from some chemical explosion that left radiation as an aftermath.

Crawley is really bugging me

I wasn't withdrawing you have yet to refute my point all you have said to my points is "I don't know how that is relevant" when it is completely relevant.

Right friendly advice aside(which i'm being blamed because of my age I guess which i fail to see the relevance but it's in good intentions so whatever), you're suggesting I have no idea as to what is being said?

But you have not told me what your point is. That's what I'm saying, you rushed into the battlefield in your young enthusiasm taking me for granted. You made some wikiquotes comopletely out of context, and your now accusing me of blaming you for something because hostile is the way you chose to read the "friendly advice".

Make your point, if you will.

Honestly? I don't mind Ghouls being outside V12. One of the few "races" in the FO Universe I enjoy seeing and conversing with. They have potential, imo, to become something great. At the very least, when compared to SM's they do. Which is why I like the idea of them being created outside of V12, they'll stay around as long as there's radiation.

Ghoul's are mutated, in some form or another, but still keep some semblance of their humanity unless they've gone feral (which, let's face it; any sentient being has the capability of going feral). They're still different, but different in a way that someone can easily relate to. Which, imo, is one of their best qualities.

double post

No way FEV could have entered Vault 12 when it was underground, the radiation could reach them because radiation can travel through matter, a virus can't. It can become airborne by latching onto oxygen cells but it cant travel into the earth.

and about Vault Dwellers the Enclave could open the vaults, nothing to do with FEV.

I do however think feral ghouls are affected by Wild FEV since their stronger then their ghoul counterparts.

Edit: lol oh god that post was so messy, sry IDK why i replied to you redneck

While I agree that FEV wasn't likely involved, it is the case that fallout shelters have to get most of their air from the surface via air vents*.
If the designers rigged the door to fail ~at least hypothetically they could have rigged the air filtration to let in irradiated dust.

(Even so; a virus could likely pass through a dust filter even if they didn't cripple it.)

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg538TquWBY#t=32s

This. Supermutants, except for at Jacobstown and Black Mountain, which makes perfect sense, should be pretty much non-existent in future Fallout titles that advance the timeline.

Also, I agree. I thought New Vegas did an excellent job with the "mutant spectrum", and I hope that pattern continues in future games. It was one of the reasons I loved the hell out of the DLCs, as each introduced at least one new (or old, in the case of HH) type of enemy.

I guess your right, in my mind i was assuming the vaults had trees and personal air supplies since surface air vents can lead people to the vault and be sabotage by outsiders. I still don't think FEV explains Dean's and DC ghouls because how far they were from the vats site.

I'll find another way to argue my point but for now im going to bed =P

edit: nvm that one vault had that weird reject FEV, no clue if it was in giant vats though

Actually radiation has a hard time moving through earth. Especially clay, which is a way to purify irradiated water.

Also, from what I wager the wild FEV would have traveled the entire USA, if not the world. The Enclave were going to use it for a world wide kill.

Also, the Enclave could not open, nor did they have records for all the Vaults. They had limited knowledge and communication with some of the vaults, but most of this ability was lost during the Great War.

Are you being serious?

I have made my point countless times why do you think I quoted a line discussing Gamma rays, why do you think I was interested in the fact Vault 12 was underground and why do you think I was interested in just how widely open vault 12's door was?

Also why do you think I said gamma radiation can penetrate about 1m of concrete (depending on it's atomic number)?

It's like you either don't understand what I have been trying to convey or you just simply haven't read it.

"Make your point, if you will." I mean seriously why do you think I was quoting wikipedia?

"Actually radiation has a hard time moving through earth. Especially clay, which is a way to purify irradiated water." this!

This is the point I am trying to make, just how would the radiation get through the earth and through the concrete selling of the sewers to the entrance of Vault 12 to even ghoulify it's inhabitants?

But that posses ANOTHER problem why would Vault 12 be so special and exclusive to ghoulification?

Don't most if not all vaults have some air filtering system?

Im sure all vaults had an air purification filter that would filter out the fallout...but a virus such as the wild fev? Fallout does have quite a bit of physical form in particles which could lead to the air filters being able to protect. Viruses though have physical form on a molecular level which the air purification could very well coukdnt do anything about.
Hence why the vault door was left open because otherwise the air filters would have protected them?

I asked you about the relevance of that (the gamma radiation) in the given situation. What difference would it have made? If the assumption is that all radiation happened to be gamma, and that it could thus move in and out of the vault at will (through the concrete and sewers and such), the vault would've been unprotected from outside radiation and that, in turn, would defeat half of its its purpose (and partly the purpose of leaving the door open in the first place).

But that's what I am saying would the radiation be able to go through the concrete of the sewers and the mud of the earth in the first place?

It probably would to some extent (and only to some extent; like evlbstrd said, radiation has hard time moving through earth), but not through the vaults outer shell (that'd be horrible design of a protective housing for that specific purpose).

* Has anyone here perused though this page yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_protection

On that note... Would it be difficult for them to design the door with radiation shielding; [the same design was used in every vault; except possibly the one under the Cathedral ~but that wouldn't matter much I think].
The vaults are surrounded by mountainsides or buried deep; [thick earth in either case].

Enclave had administrative access to Posiedo-Net; in theory they could access the Vaultdweller's Pipboy logs.