How do you sabotage the economy like Mr.Howard said? : V - Skyrim

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:48 am

Should we start listing all the false claims Todd Howard has made in the past?

Who cares? I dont know that guy, do you?

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:58 pm

Todd Howard never said the game would have a full blown economy. If I'm remembering correctly, he said something like, "It's a small thing we added and we don't expect most players to notice it." The amount of misinformation in this thread is actually kind of ridiculous, and it's pathetic how everyone is jumping on the Bethesda hate train over something like this.

I have personally noticed differing economies between holds, such as certain items selling for different prices between cities. Of course I don't know what exactly affects the prices, but once the CK comes out we'll know for sure.

Exactly. I remember Todd in an interview being asked about it and saying it was a light touch. And I've noticed it, barely, but I've noticed it. This thread is insane.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:14 pm

The good thing about Morrowind development was. They didn't say anything that important which was still unsure.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:31 am

The feature has to be present, but it doesn't have to be present in the way people's imaginations tell them it would be. There is a slightly dynamic economy to each hold. Buying and selling large quantities changes the prices of the goods that you buy. Also, the demeanor of vendors goes up depending on how much you buy and sell. So, the feature is there, technically.

Again, are you sure?
I have not seen anything like that, but if you have some sort of proof Ill happily jump on the wagon.

I have not seen anything like an economy at all , but it is hard to be 100% sure as my speechcraft and other skills rise, so that would affect a scaled system.
I have not seen the Riverwood merchant stock daedric while the Karwasten one is still on ebony, for example.
On the contrary, the rare times I go to places I rarely go, they have the exact same stuff as my main base.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:09 pm

I'll take more spells over spellmaking any day.

Can't happen with these strict perk trees. We need Spell Making back to get the same breadth as before. Every single magic school in the old Spell Making system offered far more individual effects than the schools in Skyrim's system. In Oblivion, for example, Restoration offered the following categories and sub-categories. You could mix and match them, make them self/other, make them touch or ranged, adjust their AoEs, and adjust their durations:

Absorb — Attribute, Skill, Health, Magicka, Fatigue
Cure — Disease, Paralysis, Poison
Fortify — Attribute, Fatigue, Health, Magicka, Skill
Restore — Attribute, Fatigue, Health
Resist — Magic

And now here's Restoration in Skyrim:

Heal Health (self/other/AoE)
Ward (DR/Magic)
Turn/Burn Undead
Two Circle spells

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:17 am

I didn't want to debate this for 2 hours I just wanted to know if they included sabotaging the economy.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:27 pm

After the economy thing i see why people get mad at his (Todd Howard) pregame boasts which end up not going through.

Starting to remind me of Peter Molyneux (sp)

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:39 pm

I didn't want to debate this for 2 hours I just wanted to know if they included sabotaging the economy.

I have not seen anything like that unless you include the Morrowind system of : Kill a merchant = one less shop.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:10 am

I don't want any release about unsure content in TES VI . Confirmed content yes , unconfirmed no.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:18 pm

So yeah. i guess there is no sabotagable economy

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:47 am

The feature has to be present, but it doesn't have to be present in the way people's imaginations tell them it would be. There is a slightly dynamic economy to each hold. Buying and selling large quantities changes the prices of the goods that you buy. Also, the demeanor of vendors goes up depending on how much you buy and sell. So, the feature is there, technically.

And there is this, too. There's quite a big difference between an actual, stated feature and some pre-release puffery.
Besides, at the time Todd said he could manipulate the economy, he probably could. Some things get removed because they make the game svck.

Yes, it might be there alright. I guess this is one of those marketing tecniques where you inflate a feature to a point as to make the masses buy the product. Marketing is really becoming Beth best kept secret.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:27 am

You can farm crops for farmers, cut wood for people in a few different cities, catch salmon or rare fish for fisherman/hunters, bring parchment papers to some sages for good money, haven't found any other jobs yet though. I also haven't seen anyway to sabotage the economy beyond roleplaying a bandit.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:24 am

I wish I could torch the fields and let people go hungry.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:25 pm

You can farm crops for farmers, cut wood for people in a few different cities, catch salmon or rare fish for fisherman/hunters, bring parchment papers to some sages for good money, haven't found any other jobs yet though. I also haven't seen anyway to sabotage the economy beyond roleplaying a bandit.

Yes but what does that do aside from net you some money?

Where is this economy then?

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:03 am

I heard the words dynamic economy thrown around in interviews once or twice.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:57 am

Honestly, I have to wonder if there is a dynamic economy in the game but it's simply broken.

Perhaps the NPC's actually do have their own needs programmed in and they are supposed to buy and sell to other NPC's, thus forcing some kind of economy into the game, but as with some other things in Skyrim, it's simply broken. :sadvaultboy:

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:02 am

Yes but what does that do aside from net you some money?

Where is this economy then?

The way I understood it was that venders would actually have real NPC suppliers/wholesalers that would come randomly to resupply the shops with goods or take old stock off the venders hands, and these suppliers would have escorts with them on the roads but would still be vulnerable to attack. So far, much to my disappointment I haven't really seen any of these wandering salesman yet, just a bunch of other random NPC's.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:30 am

The way I understood it was that venders would actually have real NPC suppliers/wholesalers that would come randomly to resupply the shops with goods or take old stock off the venders hands, and these suppliers would have escorts with them on the roads but would still be vulnerable to attack. So far, much to my disappointment I haven't really seen any of these wandering salesman yet, just a bunch of other random NPC's.

Yet more disapointments

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:03 am

LOL! I tried to do this the other day in the game!

I used the Flames spell on the giant tree logs stacked ontop of each other in Riverwood to see if that would burn them or have any effect....nothing.

I even tried hitting the tree stacks with my sword....nothing.

And I still haven't found a use for cutting firewood.....

long bow upgrade

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:30 am

The way I understood it was that venders would actually have real NPC suppliers/wholesalers that would come randomly to resupply the shops with goods or take old stock off the venders hands, and these suppliers would have escorts with them on the roads but would still be vulnerable to attack. So far, much to my disappointment I haven't really seen any of these wandering salesman yet, just a bunch of other random NPC's.

Yes, but that is what people keep saying.

And I keep saying I have seen none of that.
I havent noticed prices going down after selling only dwarven bows (easiest to make) to the same store over and over.
The price slightly rises as my speech increases.

I havent noticed any suppliers, I havent noticed any demand.
As I said, if there is some proof I will gladly jump on the bandwagon and laud the economy, whatever little of it there is.

But I have not experienced any economy at all

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:58 pm

Sorry, but I'd rather not believe in some ridiculous conspiracy just because some random dude on a forum told some [censored] story.

EA is pretty well known for their scumbaggery. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look this stuff up in Google, but here's some things to get you started.

http://kotaku.com/5851157/ea-caught-pressuring-publications-over-battlefield-3-reviews

http://kotaku.com/5355784/electronic-arts-tests-journalists-greed-with-cash/gallery/1

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20081022/1947002622.shtml

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:08 pm

I don't think you can :/

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:58 pm

Yes, but that is what people keep saying.

And I keep saying I have seen none of that.
I havent noticed prices going down after selling only dwarven bows (easiest to make) to the same store over and over.
The price slightly rises as my speech increases.

I havent noticed any suppliers, I havent noticed any demand.
As I said, if there is some proof I will gladly jump on the bandwagon and laud the economy, whatever little of it there is.

But I have not experienced any economy at all

Probably have to wait for mods to add these things in. Bethesda probably had to cut these features out of the game for the sake of the consoles. With that said, the AI scripts are much more advanced than any I have seen in a game ever.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:19 am

Probably have to wait for mods to add these things in. Bethesda probably had to cut these features out of the game for the sake of the consoles. With that said, the AI scripts are much more advanced than any I have seen in a game ever.

Do not get me wrong, Skyrim is probably the greatest game I have played in a decade.
I could write a page long diatribe about what it does well.
But that is hardly useful.
It is much more useful to understand that you need to inform people rather than keep them in the dark, for the simple reason you want people to sympathise.
Insisting something is in the game and letting the customer find out it is, in fact, not, is not the way to do that.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:27 am

Again, are you sure?
I have not seen anything like that, but if you have some sort of proof Ill happily jump on the wagon.

I have not seen anything like an economy at all , but it is hard to be 100% sure as my speechcraft and other skills rise, so that would affect a scaled system.
I have not seen the Riverwood merchant stock daedric while the Karwasten one is still on ebony, for example.
On the contrary, the rare times I go to places I rarely go, they have the exact same stuff as my main base.

I just did a test by fast travelling to every hold to check the price of my gear. It was expensive gear, so that a difference of less than 1% would be noticed. I compared it to all the different vendors in every hold, and then compared it to my "regular" shops where I've sold thousand upon thousand of dollars of things.

No current difference. Everybody had the exact same number on every single thing, including gems, potions, and enchanted armor/weapons. So, it would appear to me that reputation does not have any influence on the price.

The next thing to test would be whether or not selling a ton of items moves the price at all. That will be hard to test, though, because Iron daggers are only worth 4 gold. The price would have to shift by at least 25% before you would see a difference of even 1 gold anywhere. Due to that, I think I'm going to try selling some more expensive jewelrey, and just use the console to give the venders tons of money.

I'll do that one in the mornin'. Time to sleep now.