How do you say Caesar. Is it "Ki-zar" or "See-za : Fallout: New Vegas

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:28 am

Wrong. It's a Latin name, not English. In Latin, when the language was spoken, it was "kay-zar"
Even the Legion are slightly wrong by saying "ki-zar"
But that's at least much closer than the truly awful English mangling: "see-zar".

That's why I put quotation marks around correct. What's correct in one langauge is wrong in another. However, since these are English forums and Fallout takes place in Amercia See-zer would be the popular pronounciation.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:08 am

I looked into it and found something.

The senate and other people in the city said Kai-zar

While most people, as in peasents said Kee-zar

While time passed it became known as Kee-zar until it developed into See-zar.

EDIT:

Anyway, this post is really only to inform anyone interested of the existence of 3 different forms of this name.

Now four.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:06 pm

Does it really matter? Really does it? There are other ways to pronounce his name. I pronounce it as Caesar.

People in the game and even in the Legion pronoounce it different ways. The Devs wanted it that way.

Also Latin is pretty much a dead language anyways. Unless you are being a doctor, lawyer or a plant expert, Latin isn't really all that important. After a nuclear war and 200 years, I am sure people arn't going to pronounce all the Lantin just right like it was spoken 2000 years ago.

People don't even speak English the same way it was spoken only a hundred years ago.

It's just an FYI. It's not a judgement.

FFS, why are people so quick to anger on this site? Some really contrary people.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:18 am

See-zer sounds like some Puerto Rican kid. Ki-sar sounds like an emperor.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:47 am

See-zer sounds like some Puerto Rican kid. Ki-sar sounds like an emperor.

No see-zar sounds like a kind of salad.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:33 am

There already is a topic going about how to say Caesar.

Legion arn't trying to be like the Romans in everyway. Also the people of the Legion are made up of different tribal factions. They would all pronounce things differently

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:53 am

I looked into it and found something.

The senate and other people in the city said Kai-zar

While most people, as in peasents said Kee-zar

While time passed it became known as Kee-zar until it developed into See-zar.

EDIT:

Now four.

In standard/classical Latin: [kai-zar]
In Vulgar Latin, which later evolved into Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese, it slowly changed to [kee-zar]

Later, much later, but NOT in Latin, it palatalised from [k] to [s] in many languages, including English.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:19 am

It's pronounced "Ki-zar", Think of the German word kaiser.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:30 am

Ladies and germs, it has since been brought to my attention, by a old friend of mine who studied Latin for years, that even Caesar's Legion have an incorrect pronunciation of his name!!

In Latin, the combination of the letters 'ae' was written as one letter, '?', so we had 'C?sar'.

The '?' was pronounced like the 'ey' in 'hey'

So, C?sar was pronounced ['kay-zar].

Still, the Legion aren't too far off with [ki-zar]

Still a million times better than [see-zar], IMHO

Thanks for reading. :fallout:

Text book latin is derived from the Latin the Byzantines spoke, from what we can gather from modern germanic tongue Kaiser/Caesar are pronounced in a similar manner.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:47 am

In standard/classical Latin: [kai-zar]
In Vulgar Latin, which later evolved into Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese, it slowly changed to [kee-zar]

Later, much later, but NOT in Latin, it palatalised from [k] to [s] in many languages, including English.

Well glad you repeated almost exactly what I posted...

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:05 am

I wish J.E. Sawyer could join in this conversation. He would set the record straight. His in box must be full :sadvaultboy:

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:00 am

Oh... No... Not another one?
I thought there was already a discussion going on, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1218585-how-do-you-say-caesar-is-it-ki-zar-or-see-za/page__view__findpost__p__18280386.

I'll file an official complain.
Cheers!

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:29 am

If you scroll down that, you will find his post very similar. He liked it then he made this thread.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:45 am

It's pronounced "Ki-zar", Think of the German word kaiser.

LOL... Why not the Russian word Tzar? C'mon... We do understand each other... That what Latin was about... Or Greek, or Hindi... or name a of any time.
We all do know that even from town to town we pronounce the same language differently. I mean... 10Km from here.... Even my younger brother pronounce things differently.
Is there a problem? Really?
Cheers!

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:26 am

I don't think greek works. It was about with Latin.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:35 am

i merged two threads together, I don't think the pronunciation of Caesar was needing two separate threads for the discussion.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:29 pm

Only that CAESAR is a title. Not a proper name.
Cheers.

Actually it originally was a proper name, it became a title later (as in long after Julius died)

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:42 am

i merged two threads together, I don't think the pronunciation of Caesar was needing two separate threads for the discussion.

Best move, if you ask me.

Actually it originally was a proper name, it became a title later (as in long after Julius died)

Originally when? I'm sure you're not serious. CAESAR has always denoted a status, a quality, It never identified a "gens" all and by itself.
Cheers.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:24 pm

Best move, if you ask me.

Originally when? I'm sure you're not serious. CAESAR has always denoted a status, a quality, It never identified a "gens" all and by itself.
Cheers.

It comes from the original Caesar of Rome, Caesar himself, the guy, you know, Caesar.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:21 pm

It comes from the original Caesar of Rome, Caesar himself, the guy, you know, Caesar.

GAIVS-JULIUS-CAESAR. The name is one with the man. Nomen est unus,
By the code of law it can NOT be another person.
And... Yes, I could pronounce it several different ways but I would always write it as such.
Everyone would understand me

I'm talking about that guy (GAIVS).
Cheers.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:58 am

See-za is the "correct" pronounciation.

See-Za sounds too "gangster" for my liking.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:11 am

Originally when? I'm sure you're not serious. CAESAR has always denoted a status, a quality, It never identified a "gens" all and by itself.
Cheers.

The third name, or cognomen, began as a nickname or personal name that distinguished individuals with the same names. Cognomina do not appear in official documents until around 100 BC. Often the cognomen was chosen based on some physical or personality trait, sometimes with ironic results: Julius Caesar's cognomen, in one interpretation, meant hairy (cf. etymology of the name of Julius Caesar) although he was balding, and Tacitus' cognomen meant silent, while he was a well-known orator. However, from the Republican era, many cognomina were no longer nicknames, but instead were passed from father to son, serving to distinguish a family within a gens (and frequently requiring an agnomen to distinguish people of the same family if they shared praenomen as well as nomen and cognomen).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_naming_convention#Cognomen

The first known bearer of the name was one Numerius Julius Caesar (born before 300 BC), who might have been conspicuous for having a fine head of hair (alternatively, given the Roman sense of humour and Julius Caesar's own receding hairline, it could be that the family branch was conspicuous for going bald)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_%28title%29

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:43 am

See-Za sounds too "gangster" for my liking.

That's what I thought, so I added an r See-zar

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:39 am

The third name, or cognomen, began as a nickname or personal name that distinguished individuals with the same names. Cognomina do not appear in official documents until around 100 BC. Often the cognomen was chosen based on some physical or personality trait, sometimes with ironic results: Julius Caesar's cognomen, in one interpretation, meant hairy (cf. etymology of the name of Julius Caesar) although he was balding, and Tacitus' cognomen meant silent, while he was a well-known orator. However, from the Republican era, many cognomina were no longer nicknames, but instead were passed from father to son, serving to distinguish a family within a gens (and frequently requiring an agnomen to distinguish people of the same family if they shared praenomen as well as nomen and cognomen).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_naming_convention#Cognomen

The first known bearer of the name was one Numerius Julius Caesar (born before 300 BC), who might have been conspicuous for having a fine head of hair (alternatively, given the Roman sense of humour and Julius Caesar's own receding hairline, it could be that the family branch was conspicuous for going bald)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_%28title%29

It's starting to come together, isn't it?
More research will help. Cheers!

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:02 pm

I think it was referred to as his name at the time, but then later it became a title, so it would be his name when he was alive.

How do you say Caesar. Is it &#34;Ki-zar&#34; or &#34;See-za

How do you say Caesar. Is it "Ki-zar" or "See-za