Bethesda should hire someone who knows something about UI design.

If this is how the PC interface will work, it will be terrible.

I don't want to have to flip through things to get to my inventory and then flip to get to my skills. PCs have high resolution screens. I should be able to see everything at once, as I could with Morrowind. Morrowind's interface was nearly perfect; a few refinements (such as more detailed inventory views) and it would have been perfect.

The goal should be to reduce the number of clicks or movements that one has to make to access the relevant information, not to "prettify" the interface. This is interface design 101.

This should be mandatory reading material for Bethesda staff :
http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/shame.htm
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=e49820cb-954d-45ae-9cb3-1b9e8ea7fe8c

All I had to say =(

yes you can, you can see every sight there is to see without having to move a muscle to get to them.

That sounds pretty cool.



Yeah, I was just getting back into the thread a few minutes ago. Sorry I wasn't quick enough for you you'r highness.

But, it does seem that the actual "in-game" stars will be brighter. I like that idea. As a pure Mage it be great to see the Mage nebula brighter than the other two.

Many seem to be disheartened for a variety of reasons:

- The article had a clear bias towards the console community
- There was a lack of any new information for those with the Skyrim GI magazine
- Aside from vaguely explaining the mechanics, we still don't really know how it looks (how does the favorites menu work? attributes and birth signs removed? etc)
- Fast travel is returning (this was a given, if you don't like it, don't use it)
- Many don't really see how this is a real improvement over Oblivion's menu system

Personally, I think the new menu direction is nice, fresh and a great new direction for Bethesda to go. I think the player being able to change the constellations based on their actions is very nice and really immersive as a Dragonborn. I also think it will be much more user-friendly and interactive (yay for 3D objects of every item!) so the player can really get an understanding of what they are obtaining and appreciate it. That's just my personal opinion obviously. Bethesda can't please everyone. Well, until the game comes out anyways.

True. But for I have understood, if the sky is clear, you can see the stars you have chosen in your menu. I would find that amazing.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's the same experience once you walk into the place. From the map I will probably be able to see Throat of The World, but I imagine it will be a different experience all together, once I'm standing on top of it.

That was just a quick suggestion, purely a guess. I'm not asuming anything about encumberance here, I'm just saying things can be retied to non-attributes.


Pardon. My bad


Read the thread again. There are at least 3 posts that say the PC's UI could and probably will be much different.

I find these interface complaints moot, it's just laziness to not want to make two clicks that will take, what, 1 second? I'd rather have high res textures, dx11 capabilities and amazing tesselation then have one less click.... Not to mention it seems it will have the organization of the Oblivion menu so hurray, much better than the scrambled inventory of Morrowind.

:goodjob:

Sometimes it seems like people are actually trying to find things to call dumbed down just so they can complain more.

The only thing I'm worried about is the new map, but considering Bethesda has said you can only fast travel to someplace you've already visited, markers wont be on the map until you've, you know, visited them. I'm sure Bethesda isn't going to give us a map that's going to totally ruin exploration, they aren't dumb.

My guess in that there will not be much difference between the PC and console UI. The main advantage is that te PC users will eventually mod a new one in later and console will stick to what ships with the game

Sweet, I bought a PC cause I prefer PC and now I'll be forced to use Apple interface. Wonderful. (<- sarcasm)

Did you see a map in that article? I didn't. All I saw was a rather poorly worded single paragraph. They almost never mention the LIMITS of something in an article, only what it can do (and even then they leave out many details). So you can look around at all the crap? Is it all crap? Crap that you've seen before? They never said, and to take the worst out of it is to simply be a narcissist. Now I never said its going to be great, but I'm bloody [censored] tired of people screaming bloody murder at every shred of information we get. Try thinking CRITICALLY and IN CONTEXT. Are they GOING TO LET YOU SEE THE WHOLE WORLD FROM THE GET GO? Have you EVER PLAYED A GAME THAT LET YOU?

This is all about expectations, and while I do not expect some life changing UI experience, I do not expect stupidity of the level of what you're describing, especially considering I have literally never seen any game that allowed you to do something that gamebreakingly stupid.

It's not like I'm asking for immersive fast travel or spears here. I just want a PC UI that isn't a hassle. Morrowind's UI is as hassle-free as it gets (also included inventory sorting tabs just in case you missed them).

You CAN'T. As I have said, obviously, you won't be able to see the scenary as if you go to a mountain. You will have a VERY high vista of skyrim, from the sky.

Ummmmmm, did I read that map part right? Please god tell me I read it wrong or at least that it was worded wrong.

Erm what has all that got to do with the UI?

Apart from that, it's nothing about laziness. But yeah, we get it, you love everything Oblivion did. Hurray.

- It wasn't a bias towards the console community. Chances are BGS hasn't got around to programming the game for the PC yet. They start the programming for the consoles first as it is easier to port over to the PC using the console development tools then the other way around. So, the reason they didn't talk about the PC version is most likely because they don't have the PC version of controls made yet. So please don't turn this into a PC vs Console war when it has nothing to do with either community...

- Even if it's not, it will still be good. Oblivion's menu was an improvement over Morrowind's imo because you actually had your menu organized and it didn't bother me to hit the tab that the item is under because it is sort've ridiculous to complain about having to select a tab. It's faster than having to sort through your hundreds of items in the main menu if it's all on one screen.



It has everything to do with them. To change the menu (that doesn't need changing really), it would have to be reprogrammed and I would rather have them working on other features for the PC then changing a perfectly good menu setup. As for the comment about how I loved everything Oblivion did, I don't love everything Oblivion did but it was a great game that had many improvements over the "godly" Morrowind and people complain about features of Oblivion that had nothing wrong with them either because they are just too lazy to be bothered to click two buttons when in reality it's faster than hitting the one button and searching a huge page crammed with items, or they complain about features just because they are different than Morrowind. It's not like I'm some Oblivion fan boi, in fact my favorite TES game is Daggerfall, but I'll defend a game when it has no reason to be condemned.

I've already described how Skyrim's quick menu can still be superior to a 1-0 hotkey grouping.

As for "being able to see anything durrp hurrp" (not saying you can see everything, but making a point):
The map that came with Morrowind (the paper map) actually allows you to see every dungeon (that can be access from the outside) on it. It even has little caves where the mines and caves are.

Just take a look at it.


Morrowind had sorting capabilities.

They are fair enough points but I do have some disagreements:

Pt1: Although I am a PC gamer, I can understand why its being consolized, it IS being developed for the 360 so why make the UI for a PC?
Pt2: I can go with that
Pt3: My point exactly, its vaguely described, how can people judge with so little details? We havent seen it or tried so its unfair to judge based solely on the article. And sorry I have to ask about birth signs, where did you get that from? They clearly stated that all the birth signs were still there... and i'm still unsure why people don't think attributes are gone, just because they haven't mentioned it, it doesn't mean its not there. EX. they haven't mentioned iron long swords being in-game yet, but I can bet it will be. (weak yes but I couldn't come up with a better example )
Pt4: We already new that, IIRC Pete Hines confirmed it awhile ago
Pt5: Again, my point exactly, we haven't seen it or tried it so how can we can judge whether its an improvement over Oblivion's?

and I agree with your bottom statement

I don't like the skill bars design.

Ehh, well I buy my ES games for Xbox, so I can't really say I'm disappointed by this update. I can understand why the PC gamers are, though.

I like the favorites menu. Pretty cool feature. I guess. I won't have to go into my inventory anymore to equip things mid-fight. Or to use potions.

And I like how the skill screen works, with the stars and the constellations. It appears that the birthsigns have been limited to just three: Warrior, Thief, and Mage. But most of the other birthsigns were either flat-out useless or were only useful early game. Except for the Atronach. Going to miss that one.

The D pad menu switching makes the UI sound a lot smoother. No more shuffling through tabs anymore.

Fast travel is back. I, unlike many people, am not disappointed. I've never really given much of a crap about fast travel being in ES, and I don't roleplay that much. And it actually provides more of a choice. If you don't want to waste 20 minutes running across Skyrim, then fast travel. But if you want to discover a few dungeons along the way to your destination, then by all means, walk there. Also, by the "plan your way to your destination" thing, it sounds like there's going to be map markers, like the ones in Red Dead Redemption, maybe?


Overall, I liked this update. Would've liked to have more screenshots of the menus, though. I can't WAIT for Skyrim. Hoping we get a new trailer before these updates are done.


EDIT: it appears I misunderstood about the birthsigns being removed. "Bethesda is preserving the player’s ties to star signs." "The thief, the warrior, and the mage. Each of these represents one of the three master skill sets." My bad. It appears that Warrior, Thief, and Mage are all being removed as birthsigns, then, if they're just going to be visual flairs for the skills.

You have to find the locations first or are they all there from the beginning?

I would say that the problem with Oblivion's interface was the GIANT font. In any other way, it was bettr than Morrowind's one.