Hulking Fabricant Bug. : III - Morrowind

» Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:09 pm

Great news, it's working! My Fabricants are as they should be! Thanks so much Alaisiagae! You've really helped us with this.

Woah! Very interesting. I'm almost done with the Meshes\i folder. Fingers are rather exhausted. Any short-cut keys for Spells > Optimize > Combine Properties and selecting the Material properties? My mouse hand is tired.

» Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:23 pm

Wish I could help ya with at

Don't worry about it, you deserve a break.

» Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:24 pm

Woah! Very interesting. I'm almost done with the Meshes\i folder. Fingers are rather exhausted. Any short-cut keys for Spells > Optimize > Combine Properties and selecting the Material properties? My mouse hand is tired.

Sorry, the latest version of Qt has caused BSAs to break in NifSkope and I'm not sure why yet...

» Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:49 am

Sorry, the latest version of Qt has caused BSAs to break in NifSkope and I'm not sure why yet...

? I'm not using .bsa's - I extracted those into folders on my hard-drive. Or am I misunderstanding something? I don't suppose there's a program that can edit material properties of meshes in bulk - that is, batch conversion.

UPDATE: finished Tribunal Meshes. :woot: Now onto Bloodmoon...

» Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:49 am

? I'm not using .bsa's - I extracted those into folders on my hard-drive. Or am I misunderstanding something? I don't suppose there's a program that can edit material properties of meshes in bulk - that is, batch conversion.

It's stopping development until I've resolved - I now know what the bug is and how to fix it, it'll just take some time.

Have you seen Manauser's http://webpages.charter.net/manauser/morrowind/? The http://webpages.charter.net/manauser/morrowind/files/NifLight-Readme.txt suggests that it does exactly what you are looking for - otherwise, you'd need to look into writing a PyFFI spell... :shrug:

» Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:19 am

It's stopping development until I've resolved - I now know what the bug is and how to fix it, it'll just take some time.

Have you seen Manauser's http://webpages.charter.net/manauser/morrowind/? The http://webpages.charter.net/manauser/morrowind/files/NifLight-Readme.txt suggests that it does exactly what you are looking for - otherwise, you'd need to look into writing a PyFFI spell... :shrug:

Readme says that it can do batch changes but only if the properties are named the same in the .nifs - well, the problem is, they aren't. Bethesda gives them different names (which is stupid because there's no difference between the properties anyway). *sigh* Oh well.

» Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:51 pm

@Westly: thanks for the tips.

If Specular color is set to white, does it obscure/hide vector colors? It appears to do so (bleaches out vector colors) in Nifskope, but I don't know if that is true for in-game rendering as well.

Morrowind turns off specular lighting, as it looks terrible on the low-poly meshes the game shipped with. NifSkope does have it on by default, you can effectively turn it off by setting the specular light colour to black in options. Specular should not be able to make things darker since it's an additive effect, besides it being disabled in-game leads me to think there's another cause, either in the NIF or the engine.

» Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:22 am

Morrowind turns off specular lighting, as it looks terrible on the low-poly meshes the game shipped with. NifSkope does have it on by default, you can effectively turn it off by setting the specular light colour to black in options. Specular should not be able to make things darker since it's an additive effect, besides it being disabled in-game leads me to think there's another cause, either in the NIF or the engine.

So... does that mean everything I've been doing is absolutely useless? :unsure:

» Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:43 am

So... does that mean everything I've been doing is absolutely useless? :unsure:

Not if it cures your obsessive compulsiveness. :whisper:

» Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:48 am

Nah, it just means you don't have to worry about the specular settings in the material properties (unless that's all you changed for some creatures, in which case, I guess so).

Don't blame Bethesda for the different material names, textures are directly connected to the materials in 3ds max, so you have to use seperate materials with different names for meshes with different textures.
Soooo.... it wasn't stupid, that's just how it works.

» Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:33 pm

Nah, it just means you don't have to worry about the specular settings in the material properties (unless that's all you changed for some creatures, in which case, I guess so).

Don't blame Bethesda for the different material names, textures are directly connected to the materials in 3ds max, so you have to use seperate materials with different names for meshes with different textures.
Soooo.... it wasn't stupid, that's just how it works.

I did change a few goofy Ambient settings here and there, as well as some bizarre vertex colors.... But, mostly I've just been changing the Specular color. Hm.

Not sure what to do now - keep going with what I usually do, or just focus on changing meshes with wonky material settings unrelated to the Specular color?
It would certainly be easier if I only focused on really strange settings.

@tetchy:

» Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:29 am

You should narrow down exactly what setting causes the bug, it could even be loading and resaving in NifSkope fixes something. Make an array of nifs to test and then you can explore where things are going wrong.

» Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:51 pm

You should narrow down exactly what setting causes the bug, it could even be loading and resaving in NifSkope fixes something. Make an array of nifs to test and then you can explore where things are going wrong.

Oh, I know what the problem is. It was the Ambient color setting that was set to near black. Some meshes have that problem, other meshes I've come across have the Diffuse set to black or Emissive set toward white.

Some vertex colors are colored... I'm not sure whether I should leave that be, or if I should manually change it to be greyscale.

» Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:12 pm

Okay, I'm done. I even made a readme and everything. THIS NEEDS TESTING like crazy. I haven't tested any of these in-game, so I don't know whether my changes make an improvement, no noticeable difference, or make things look worse.

This is on my to-do list to test, but it isn't very high up there at the moment. To help speed up the process, I'd be grateful if people would be willing to try any or all of these in-game and tell me what you see. Did the mesh make things look better? Worse? No difference? For interior set pieces, look all around, as usually only one or two things (out of dozens) had odd material properties. It'd be helpful to have "before" and "after" screenshots. If you're having trouble spotting a difference, let me know which mesh you are trying to test and I'll point out which area needs to be examined.

>>>>Download from MediaFire http://www.mediafire.com/?dom5mmzt2y2 (approx 3.5 MB).

Changed Meshes:

Spoiler

meshes\a\a_almindoril_greave_k.nif
meshes\a\a_almindoril_boot_gnd.nif
meshes\a\a_almindoril_greave_ul.nif
meshes\a\a_almindoril_greaves_gnd.nif
meshes\a\a_ice_greaves_gnd.nif
meshes\a\a_ice_pauldron_gnd.nif

meshes\c\c_robe_white.1st.nif
meshes\c\c_robe_white.nif
meshes\c\c_shoes_common2.nif

meshes\d\bm_ic_door_01.nif
meshes\d\bm_ic_door_pelt_dark.nif
meshes\d\ex_colony_bardoor.nif
meshes\d\ex_colony_door01.nif
meshes\d\ex_colony_door02.nif
meshes\d\ex_colony_door03.nif
meshes\d\ex_colony_door04.nif
meshes\d\ex_colony_door05.nif
meshes\d\ex_colony_door06.nif
meshes\d\ex_colony_door07.nif
meshes\d\ex_colony_door08.nif
meshes\d\ex_colony_minedoor.nif
meshes\d\ex_s_door.nif
meshes\d\in_colony_door01.nif
meshes\d\db_door01.nif
meshes\d\db_door_oval.nif
meshes\d\db_door_oval_02.nif
meshes\d\db_door_round.nif

meshes\f\bm_ice_wall.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snow_log_01.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snow_log_02.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snow_log_03.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snow_log_04.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snow_log_05.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snowstump_01.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snowstump_02.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snowstump_03.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snowstump_04.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snowstump_05.nif
meshes\f\flora_bm_snowstump_06.nif
meshes\f\flora_tree_mh_02.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_hook01.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_ladder01.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_oven01.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_r_shelf01.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_r_shelf02.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_r_shelf03.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_r_shelf04.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_robe01.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_shelf01.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_shelf02.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_shelf03.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_shelf05.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_shelf06.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_stonetable02.nif
meshes\f\furn_colony_win01.nif
meshes\f\xbm_ice_wall.nif

meshes\i\act_hot_oil_512.nif
meshes\i\act_sotha_clockwork.nif
meshes\i\act_sotha_door.nif
meshes\i\act_sotha_green.nif
meshes\i\act_sotha_mach_door.nif
meshes\i\act_sotha_oilbridge.nif
meshes\i\act_sotha_oilcrane.nif
meshes\i\act_sotha_pre_door.nif
meshes\i\act_sotha_red.nif
meshes\i\act_sotha_tenderizer.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_bar-inn01.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_barn01.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_cave_door01.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_house01.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_house02.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_house03.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_mineentrance01.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_playerhome01.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_sop01.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_sop02.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_stoneoven_02.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_wall01.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_wall02.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_wall03.nif
meshes\i\bm_colony_wall04.nif
meshes\i\bm_ic_colony_sop01.nif
meshes\i\bm_ic_colony_sop02.nif
meshes\i\bm_ic_exit_01.nif
meshes\i\bm_ic_room_center_04.nif
meshes\i\bm_ic_room_column.nif
meshes\i\bm_ic_type02_exit_01.nif
meshes\i\bm_ic_type02_exit_03.nif
meshes\i\bm_ka_hall.nif
meshes\i\bm_ka_throneroom.nif
meshes\i\in_bm_deadplatform.nif
meshes\i\in_bm_hbane_ent_01.nif
meshes\i\in_db_front01.nif
meshes\i\in_bm_hbane_ent_01.nif
meshes\i\in_om_casket.nif
meshes\i\in_om_column09.nif
meshes\i\in_om_connect_01.nif
meshes\i\in_om_doorjam.nif
meshes\i\in_om_doorjam_03.nif
meshes\i\in_om_mezzanine.nif
meshes\i\in_om_pillar.nif
meshes\i\in_om_plat512.nif
meshes\i\in_om_rubble01.nif
meshes\i\in_om_rubble_sm01.nif
meshes\i\in_om_temple_ruins.nif
meshes\i\in_om_wall_curve_01.nif
meshes\i\in_om_wall_curve_02.nif
meshes\i\in_om_wall_pillar.nif
meshes\i\in_om_wall_spike.nif
meshes\i\in_om_wallruin07.nif
meshes\i\in_s_doorway.nif
meshes\i\in_thirsk.nif
meshes\i\xact_sotha_clockwork.nif
meshes\i\xact_sotha_door.nif
meshes\i\xact_sotha_pre_door.nif

meshes\l\light_dwe_bulb00.nif
meshes\l\light_mh_rope_lantern.nif
meshes\l\light_mh_streetlight_01.nif

meshes\m\key_daedric_01.nif
meshes\m\wolfredplaque.nif
meshes\m\wolfwhiteplaque.nif

meshes\n\ingred_horn_lily_bulb_01.nif
meshes\n\ingred_meadow_rye_01.nif
meshes\n\ingred_nirthfly_stalks_01.nif
meshes\n\ingred_raw_adam.nif

meshes\o\contain_bm_wolfbane_01.nif
meshes\o\contain_daedric_chest_01.nif
meshes\o\flora_plant_01.nif
meshes\o\flora_plant_02.nif
meshes\o\flora_plant_03.nif
meshes\o\flora_plant_04.nif
meshes\o\flora_plant_05.nif
meshes\o\flora_plant_06.nif
meshes\o\flora_plant_08.nif
meshes\o\flora_sedge_01.nif
meshes\o\flora_sedge_02.nif

meshes\r\xalmalexia_warrior.nif
meshes\r\xcr_draugr.nif
meshes\r\xdraugrlord.nif
meshes\r\xfabricant_hulking.nif
meshes\r\xfabricant_imperfect.nif
meshes\r\xicemraider.nif
meshes\r\xpackrat.nif
meshes\r\xundeadwolf_1.nif
meshes\r\xundeadwolf_2.nif

meshes\w\w_huntsman_bolt.nif
meshes\w\w_huntsman_crossbow.nif
meshes\w\w_huntsman_longsword.nif
meshes\w\w_huntsman_spear.nif
meshes\w\w_huntsman_waraxem.nif
meshes\w\w_stendarshammer.nif

meshes\x\bm_ex_ice_exit_01_dirt.nif
meshes\x\bm_ex_ice_exit_01_dirtsnow.nif
meshes\x\bm_ex_ice_exit_01_snow.nif
meshes\x\bm_ex_ice_exit_02_dirtsnow.nif
meshes\x\ex_bm_hbane_ent_01.nif
meshes\x\ex_colony_bar_inn01.nif
meshes\x\ex_colony_mine_entrance01.nif
meshes\x\ex_colony_mine_office01.nif
meshes\x\ex_colony_p_residence01.nif
meshes\x\ex_colony_pier01.nif
meshes\x\ex_colony_sop01.nif
meshes\x\ex_colony_sop02_2.nif
meshes\x\ex_mh_bazaar_cart_01.nif
meshes\x\ex_mh_bazaar_planter_01.nif
meshes\x\ex_mh_bazaar_planter_02.nif
meshes\x\ex_mh_pav_bstatue_10.nif
meshes\x\ex_s_longhouse_blue.nif
meshes\x\ex_s_longhouse_dkred.nif
meshes\x\ex_s_longhouse_green.nif
meshes\x\ex_s_longhouse_red02.nif
meshes\x\ex_s_longhouse_red.nif
meshes\x\ex_s_window01.nif
meshes\x\ex_s_window01_closed.nif
meshes\x\ex_s_window.nif
meshes\x\ex_s_window_closed.nif

EDIT: I might have missed a few meshes for that list, I'm getting sleepy. :snoring:

» Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:07 am

To be honest, I've only noticed the Fabricant bug, no others.
I'll give this mesh changing thing a try soon.

Can't be any worse than a mod that changes Gold in the game to look Gold (like a Gold Bar in real life) and not tell you it did that.