I thought I just svcked with the Hunting Rifle. In my first playthrough, I decided to try and thin the herd a bit at Nelson with a scopeless hunting rifle before rushing down with short range guns, but I missed far more times than I hit. So I toss it, thinking it svcks.

On my current playthru, I come across a Hunting Rifle Scope mod at the Gun Runners, as well as a rifle. So I decided what the hey, let's give it another shot. Lo and behold, I'm http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Garrus left and right now.

Now I got to wondering... Why? Why did my aim svck with the hunting rifle ironsights, but it's shoot-a-tick-off-a-deer-at-100-yards accurate with the scope?

I decided to do some investigating. There is a completely harmless (actually sometimes helpful) bug where if you aim down sights while in 3rdperson view and then switch to 1stperson while still aiming, the HUD crosshair persists. This is useful for finding out just where on an ironsight the actual aim point is. This revealed something: the iron sights are literally off-kilter. No wonder I couldn't hit anything!

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3331/huntingriflesightbug.jpg It wasn't noticeable with the vanilla zoom settings, so I made a mod that altered the SIght FOV value to 10. I am crouching, I used the console to modAV my Guns skill to 100 and I took a Steady chem for the screenshot, to ensure maximum steadiness for the screenshot.

I thought it was maybe the SightingNode off-kilter. I checked the basic unmodded hunting rifle mesh. It was off-kilter, but not horizontally like in the screenshot. So that means the ironsight animation itself is off.

I checked the Varmint Rifle and This Machine as well, and they're off-kilter too.

Awesome, I guess I will just use this as my excuse as to why im so bad at aiming with Ironsights.

But umm....what can you do about it????

So, did RogueHallow fix this for his ironsights mod, because it appears to be correct in this shot?: http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/images/35161-2-1289065113.jpg

And it seems to work fine in my game.

Maybe consider installing his mod, or removing any mods you have that may be affecting it?

I've done the Viewpoint Switch trick on several other weapons while playing just to see where the aim point is, and they're all properly centered. It's just the rifles.

Haven't tested the lever-action cowboy rifles, so they may or may not have the problem too. They're TwoHandRifle weapons, so they may very well be (pistol grip rifles are "TwoHandAutomatic").

No mods are affecting it.

Didn't know that RogueHallow had corrected it. I'll see what he did.

EDIT: Just checked the anim alterations in RH_IronSights, it seems that there is no altered ironsight anim for the hunting rifle (2hrattack3IS.kf), so I don't know why it's straight in that shot.

Can anyone else get concurrent findings?

EDIT 2: Upon further inspection of the RH_IronSight screenshot there, that screenshot doesn't have any actual indications that it's centered. That bottle is at a range that the misalignment wouldn't matter, and the lines appear to be drawn on unaware of the alignment problem. The HUD crosshair trick is the only verifiable way I know to determine iron sight alignment.

Weird, must only be for PC. I can reliably pop heads at the edge of my vision with the hunting rifle iron sights... not to brag or anything (honestly).

Yeah, just about all the iron sights are off just slightly. Bullet impact is always to the right of the front post. Scoped weapons the bullet impact is a tiny bit below the cross-hairs since the scope's line of sight is sitting above the barrel's line of sight.

It's nothing like FO3's scoped weapons. Those where off by huge amounts where at the longest ranged head shots required aiming at the left (from shooter's POV) butt-cheek.

I have experienced dead accurate shots with iron sight and horrendous miss with them, and I think this is why.

It could have been something to do with position of the character's elbow....adjusted to accommodated odd pose while sneaking.

I will check with that 3rd person trick and see what's what.

So I tested out the ironsights mod..

Its better but.. as you can see.. its still a bit off..

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/celica62/New%20Vegas/FalloutNV2010-12-2123-58-14-25.png

Not sure if this is accurate and if anyone else is getting this picture.

Edit: I'll probably keep on aiming around and see if the position changes but it probably shouldn't.

You need to alter the hunting rifle's "Sight FOV" to 10 in the GECK to properly compare the results. You're comparing screenshot with a FOV zoom of 38 to one with a FOV zoom of 10, so it will naturally look less pronounced.

Just eyeballing it and comparing to a screenshot from before I altered the sight FOV to make the problem more apparent, it looks like it's just the same. It's best to replicate someone else's experiment precisely to get your own baseline before doing your own tests.

As I said, this may seem like a piddly little misalignment, but the Hunting Rifle is meant to be a long range weapon, with one of the steadiest min spread values in the game. At ranges where a target's head is smaller than the front iron sight, that off-kilter can mean shooting a yard or so off-target.

checked the brush gun, hunting rifle, varmint rifle, and cowboy repeater and they all have the same problem of the ironsights slightly to the left of the crosshair. I'm guessing it's a problem with the first person aim animation for 2 hand rifles(hand position may be off), but I still need to check.

2 hand automatics looks fine, though.

FIXED:

http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=38927

Ah I forgot about that. So after I made the change, here are the results. This is with RH_Ironsights:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/celica62/New%20Vegas/FalloutNV2010-12-2202-47-08-79.png and http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/celica62/New%20Vegas/FalloutNV2010-12-2202-47-20-97.png

I wanted to do both stances just to show the difference between the stances. Plus, at least it taught me that Sunny wasn't spouting non-sense at the start of the game.

This is with 100 Guns skill and Steady, just like your original screenshot. Overall, the mod does correct the issue, but its still off by a tad on the left. I'm not sure if our screen resolutions would play a factor into this though. Might be worth another screenshot test? Might as well chuck out any variable that may cause differences.

Edit @ Above post: Thanks for the fix. I'll definitely download it. It may conflict with the RH_Ironsights mod though but I don't mind taking it off inexchange for the rest of the rifles to be fixed.

Yeah, RH_Ironsights aligns the mesh, my fix aligns the animations. Might not be compatible.

Think you could do an optional file which excludes the Hunting Rifle but has the remaining ones? I guess its just for my own preference but if you could, I would appreciate that. If not, I can always just remove it, no harm done. I just like the rest of the RH_Ironsights mod, so that's why I'm asking.

I wish I could, but there's no way of excluding a rifle from its animation. 2 hand rifles share the same 2 hand rifle aiming animation, sorry

If you're not having accuracy issues with RH_Ironsights, then I suggest you use that.

Ah its alright. I guess I'll make do without the Laser Pistol sights. Thanks for the fix regardless. Excellent that you got it done before I slept too. Now I can see the difference before I go to bed.

Edit @ Edit: *Wow, that's the first time I've done this whole edit @ edit thing* I'll give it a shot as well when I wake up. For now, like I said, I just want to see the difference.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/Gerza71/FalloutNV2010-12-2221-38-09-40.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/Gerza71/FalloutNV2010-12-2221-39-26-82.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/Gerza71/FalloutNV2010-12-2221-40-51-74.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/Gerza71/FalloutNV2010-12-2221-42-59-85.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/Gerza71/FalloutNV2010-12-2221-43-31-38.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/Gerza71/FalloutNV2010-12-2221-45-46-58.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/Gerza71/FalloutNV2010-12-2221-46-15-73.jpg

When I was taking these the gun is swaying crouching and standing. The way I see it, it meant to be like that.I think its something to do with spread. When I aim in this game and fallout 3 I aim a bit lower if the target is far away.
I don't know this is the same thing, in Cod-UO I am crap using level action rifles like the Kar 96 (Correct me if I wrong in naming that rifle) when I aim at the head I miss. So one night I aim lower target goes down every time I aim low. Thats the way I play fallout 3 and this game. I Have a modded Varmint rifle and I crack at it. I can get target like a wild dog 50 meters away crouching with one shot. Even human targets 60 to 80 meters away (I just guessing about the distance's) crouching one shot aim low. That is 90 in guns, laser and repair.

Something to do with spread and the way the pc holding the gun. I not worried about that.

@Gerza71
you're zooming in with the default FOV values. If you try zooming in with modified FOV, say FOV 10, you'll see the rifles aren't properly aligned. Heck even in the default FOV, the rifle is slightly pointing to the left of the crosshair.

http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/images/38927-1-1293011271.jpg

ive definatly noticed this.

im near 100 with guns skill but still cant hit things 20 yards infront of me with the hunting rifle.

PATCH PLEASE.

I am aware of sway, even at minimum spread. That is why I controlled for it. The HUD crosshair never once went to the left side of the iron sights. That means it's misaligned. It danced across the ironsights when it was at the most extreme of the sway, but never over it. If it were properly aligned, this would not be the case.

Not a problem for short/medium ranges, but at long ranges (the range the Hunting Rifle is meant for), it means more misses than hits.

I installed joefoxx's fix and it seems to work.

It does screw up the hunting rifle with RH_ironsights, but it should be a simple matter to switch the model back to the original one for any guns I find mis-aligned now.

edit: Yeah, removing RH's model centres the gun again. It's a bit high, but workable.

Yeah, the sighting being a bit high on the hunting rifle is due to an actual misalignment on the SightingNode itself. I have some fixed hunting rifle meshes laying about, I can REL them after work today.

The base hunting rifle's SightingNode is just misaligned vertically, with the sighting node being at the base of the front sight vane. Some of the others are off horizontally as well. Obviously, the scoped mod variants don't have such a problem.

you should probably include my animation file along with the fixed hunting rifle mesh, so I can delete my uploaded file.

i noticed this on xbox a while back. Pretty much all the rifles are affected, it bugged me to the point I turned true iron sights off and just used the reticle. when your trying for a long range head shot with a silenced varmint rifle it helps that you know your goin to hit! All the pistols seem fine apart from the 10mm, the front post obscures the target (do the 3rd person to 1st person while aiming trick) others like the BAR and I think the Assault Carbine are aligned properly, not that these ones matter much because of the spread!

I find the scoped sight is actually the one that's off. If you shoot at a wall while looking through a scope it always hits down and to the right of where you are aiming. I tried shooting a bottle a bit above the top and pow bottle went flying. I shot at the bottom of a bottle a little bit up and I kept hitting below it and missing the bottle. Yet when I aim at a guys head I hit it no problem so I am guessing there is some kind of auto aim that helps align the shot for you. I tried about four different scopes and they all do the same thing.