I would hope that they just stay with the infected by a werebear lore than, and make it traditional forced transformations and such.

Pretty much this, If they add a faction for werebears, great, but I won't lose sleep if they don't.

Have you been playing my character? That sounds like one of my characters.

Just a question. Why is this in the Dawnguard subforum over the Skyrim one?

I put it here to avoid spoilers regarding Dawnguard in the general forum, because I figured things like wild werewolves, the perk trees, and the vampire lord mechanics qualified as spoilers. Since Dawnguard was sorta vampire centric, it also seemed best to talk about this here, rather than somewhere else. Especially because it was looking at what I personally felt Skyrim did wrong to begin with, but also what Dawnguard made worse (looking at you thin-bloods). It also has the added bonus of largely keeping the "Diz izunt Twilightzzzzzz!" crowd from bothering us, which happens fairly often in the threads discussing werewolfs and vampires in the other threads.

I know no one's gonna be happy with me about this. I know this. But I have to say it.

Vampires and werewolves are kinda lame. Now they dont NEED to be. But so long as the game wont let you really play as a villain...I see little point. I get that you can join a villainous faction in Dawnguard but that simply isnt good enough.

On a personal note and in the interest of full disclosure... I CANT be a werewolf. Because it switches to a forced 3rd person. I get vertigo. Playing a game like this in third person literally makes me sick.

I'm of a more moderate opinion on the state of vampirism in skyrim,
Yes there was only one real drawback of being a vampire which was removed with the dawnguard dlc, but no one ever seems to look at the fact that vampires in Skyrim don't really offer any considerable bonuses at least as far as combat is concerned. In oblivion vampires were at least granted some very decent combat options which made the drawbacks worth it no matter what you had to go through.
and I admit I played my vampires in a way that some would consider "wrong" I never played my vampire characters as pure stealth characters, when the sun went down I would summon creatures and sling spells. I felt like a powerful Vamp mage and rp'd as such. I'm down for major drawbacks but not if that's all I'm getting, All bonus no drawback is boring, but all drawback no bonus is equally boring.

To a point, I do agree with the "kinda lame" assessment. I am disappointed that I can't actually go full villain. I understand 'why' you can't...but still, ....

However! It doesn't detract from my fun factor , and in my own way I still play the villain so for now I'm good with what I got. I just hope that Bethesda is listening to all of us and taking notes, because we all have some damn good ideas!

werebears would be nice change over the usual suddenly bear

i cant walk 100 meters without encountering 2 or 3 bears


and they should also get rid of the time it takes to transform, or atleast add some sort of protection while transforming. like making the enemies that are close stagger for a few seconds until you're transformed

I'm still of the opinion that when I transformed into a vampire lord, I should've been able to still cast all my normal spells. Sure you get more magicka and health, but I still don't think it would be that OP.

Surely that'd make mage Vampire Lords better than warrior or sneak ones, as you'd retain some measure of your usual skillset but they wouldn't?

Well VLs are more catered toward mage characters anyway.

Vampire Lords are already more mage minded anyway, as they retain the H/M/S stats just with a boost, meaning mages would be more equipped for prolonged battles using their Blood Magic than anyone that doesn't use put points into Magic.

Also VideoGameMage: I agree and was pleased to see this revived.

I think the mods Better Vampires and Tales of Lycanthropy really do both vampires and werewolves justice. However, I wish Better Vampires could have made it so that if you get infected by Sybille Stentor, Alva, or Movarth and his crew you got the Cyrodiilic strain. And if you get infected by any other vampire you get the Volkihar strain and have the normal feeding and all that. The mod has the ability to choose between the reverse feeding and normal feeding, and you can change how the hostility works and sun damage.

I would like encouraged feeding for vampires, but I'm not too sure that the Weaknesses should get nerfed as you get more powerful.
I liked Oblivion's vampires, they felt like something you really didn't want to be. but of course we're going to need at least some reason for a few people to be one.
The problem was that the Bonuses were never actually worth the given weaknesses, So just make the bonuses by some views worth it.

For weaknesses, not much changed from Oblivion. as a new-blood, Sun-damage isn't really a worry, but it's still present. the casual Frost resistance & Fire weakness. as going without feeding, just like we've had, these symptoms become more potent. But for feeding, Instead of being reset exactly back to how you first started, your weaknesses are a tiny bit, maybe almost unnoticeably a bit more potent, however your Strengths are a bit more "noticeably" potent.
by this, even though you're feeding brings you down in the symptoms, you're still generally better than how you started, and this could add on as you continue this.
For the stages, in this case they shouldn't be random huge jumps in difference, and instead of the last stage you can reach at that point being the strongest Vampire you could be, howbout we limit it to just something decently better than what you are now, and can't get any higher than that at that point. of course, by doing this, after you feed and you're a little better than you were before as stage 1, the newer last stage would still be "something decently better" than stage 1, in which your new stage 1 is better, making your new Last stage also better.
this long slow process of Feeding & not feeding would still increase your weaknesses, but your strengths increase faster than them. (This could go far, but there would eventually have to be a limit where it does just repeat itself from feeding and your possible last stage)

For what the strengths are, I really did not like any of them in either Oblivion or Skyrim, I'd prefer a less "Inherited magic" route. leave Vampiric Drain as a spell to be learned from a Vampire faction, from a Mage there or something. Let's have the character slowly become more like a predator.
a good example: What if a high staged powerful vampire was quite similar to how the Predator thingy was like in Far Cry: Instincts? Sprint at pretty high speeds, jump like a boss, smash people pretty hard with your weapons or even just your fists, follow scented trails of living things to stalk them down. Something like this could be what your character would be progressing to. let the other things that are more based to classes be earned from Vampire factions and your choices in them.
Some could view these things as a bit Over-powered, but let's not forget you're now forcefully Nocturnal (unless of course you want to die by daylight), and basically incinerate at some contact with fire. (being forcefully nocturnal came well with another Idea I had, that in the next TES, Nighttime could be more feared, where higher level, or just potentially harder creatures turn up only during then. Being an Over-powered Vampire would be suited for it)

Some other fallback features to add to it--

Another reason to encourage feeding, it could also give a timed bonus of strength, or just leveling speed like the Rested bonuses do for sleeping in Skyrim.

Wearing apparel that covers more of your body could reduce sun-damage, maybe even full blown protection could stop it. but as a negative affect, you might rise suspicion for NPC's if you're going around wearing a complete set of robes that covers your face to your toes.


That's all I've got, sorry if I'm a bit unclear on a few things. my Idea's don't feel well organized or worded.

My problem with Werewolves is that the combat gets boring. Mainly because there's no real skill in it - mash the mouse buttons until everything dies. Now, the bigger problem is that this is my criticism for melee combat in general (werewolf combat is just a bit more bearable), so it'd be a bit harder to fix within the normal system.

I haven't played enough with Vampire Lords to really give any criticism about it.