Starting thread 2, here is the original link to thread 1 if you want further reading- http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1184117-an-idea-to-put-the-8-attributes-back-into-skyrim

Remember this topic isn't about Bashing Attributes or Perks or which system is better. This topic is mainly about how my system could possibly be used in Skyrim.

I have made some changes to the OP. I've decided to gut some of the attributes and go with a different Attribute system then was in the 1st thread. Personality, Willpower, Intelligence and Endurance, are gone. I've also added in 2 new attributes called Dragonblood and Wisdom. I'll explain what those two attributes do later on in the OP. The next paragraph starts the topic with the beginning of the paragraph copied from the previous thread.

I was thinking of this earlier today and I thought of the reasons why Beth took the attributes out and just went with Health, Magicka, and Stamina. I understand how bad attributes were in Oblivion. The main problem was that the skills had a governed attribute, all the attributes made it to 100 and you had to use skills that you would never use in order to get a +5. Now with the addition of perks Beth went with the reason that Perks could do the same thing as Attributes and they can, but they can't here's why. Attributes did more then just + number per level they had effects. Strength affected encumberence, Speed affected how much you moved, etc. Not to mention that Attributes showed you where your character was and in Skyrim everybody's character is going to be the same when they start out minus some stat changes due to race and different starting bonuses in skills also based off of race.

This is what I propose, keep Health, Magicka and Stamina in but also include some of the attributes from Oblivion and 2 new attributes. These 6 attributes will be different from the main 3 Status Attributes that you will level up every level. The system that the attributes will be based off of is a system similar to fallout 3 however it won't be a 1-10 format but a 1-20 format and you'll be able to put 1 attribute point in every 3 levels starting at level 3 and maxing out at level 60. Races with benefical attributes will start off at 7, average Attributes will start off at 5 and weak attributes will start off at 3. At the beginning like Fallout 3 you'll be able to put 5 points into the Attributes however you won't be able to decrease the attributes from what they originally were. You can't lower Intelligence to 1 just so you can get Strength up to 15 at the beginning.

These are the Attributes effects. I've tried hard not to have them interfere with Skills which was the big problem with Oblivion's attributes system.

Strength- Affects the amount of Encumberence that you have. Base starting Encumberence is 200 + 10 Encumberence for every point into strength. If you somehow reach 20 in strength you'll have 400 Encumberence.

Wisdom- For years you have studied Magic. Wisdom affects Magic Regeneration and Magic Resistance. For every point into Wisdom, Magic Regeneration goes up 1 point up to a maximum of 20 magicka points regenerated per second and your Magic Resistance goes up 1.25 (rounding down or up) up to a maximum of 25% increase in Magic Resistance.

Dragonblood- The blood of Dragons and the gods runs through you. For every point into Dragonblood your rate for Dragon Shout recharge is decreased by 1% and you do an extra 1 point of damage to dragons for every point into Dragonblood. If you maxed Dragonblood out at 20 your recharge rate is lowered by 20% and you'll do an extra 20 damage against dragons.

Speed- Determines how fast you are. For every point into speed your running rate is increased by 1 % off of a base set number like in Fallout 3. Different races will have a higher base set number so expect a Dark Elf or a Wood Elf to have a higher base set number then say an Imperial.

Agility- Determines how fast you swing a weapon. For every point into agility your weapon swing speed is increased by 2 %.

Luck- Determines how lucky you are and additional critical rate. For every point into luck your chance to get a rare item out of a chest increases by 1% up to a maximum of 20% at 20. For every point into luck your critical rate increases by .75 (Rounding Down or up) up to a maximum of 15% critical rate increase at 20.

This would be an example of the races starting attributes before you can put 5 more points into the attributes. I'll post all 10 races starting attributes under this system.

Imperial
Strength 5
Wisdom 5
Dragonblood 5
Speed 5
Agility 3
Luck 5

Nord
Strength 7
Wisdom 3
Dragonblood 5
Speed 5
Agility 5
Luck 5

Dark Elf
Strength 5
Wisdom 3
Dragonblood 5
Speed 7
Agility 5
Luck 5

Breton
Strength 3
Wisdom 7
Dragonblood 5
Speed 5
Agility 3
Luck 5

Wood Elf
Strength 3
Wisdom 5
Dragonblood 5
Speed 7
Agility 5
Luck 5

High Elf
Strength 3
Wisdom 7
Dragonblood 5
Speed 5
Agility 3
Luck 5

Orc
Strength 7
Wisdom 3
Dragonblood 5
Speed 3
Agility 7
Luck 5

Khajitt
Strength 5
Wisdom 3
Dragonblood 5
Speed 5
Agility 7
Luck 5

Argonian
Strength 3
Wisdom 5
Dragonblood 5
Speed 7
Agility 5
Luck 5

Redguard
Strength 7
Wisdom 3
Dragonblood 5
Speed 5
Agility 5
Luck 3

I really hope that my idea is at least looked at and considered. If it's too late to put Attributes back in I completely understand and I also will be happy under the perk system since Beth fixed the flaw that Fallout 3 had with Perks. Fallout 3 had too few of perks, now that we have around 280 perks our characters will be more diverse and our perk choices will be even more important.

I'm happy with the perks system.

I bet people that try to mod in attributes will hate it immediately after playing.

My 2 cents.

I know you may be happy with the perk system and I am too but that's not the point of this topic.

I know, I'm just voicing my opinion on the general theme of your post, which is attributes and perks.

Some actual input?
Well, Todd even stated (At least I'm pretty sure) that races will have racial differences, like Nords will have more Health than Bretons, Altmer will have the most Magicka, Bosmer/Kahjiit will have the most Stamina, etc. So it seems that it'll work out just fine, but I like your idea as well.

so what's the point of the topic?

*Looks at thread title.*

I thought it was 8 attributes?

@ Gunmaster95 It was originally 8 but I made some changes because Willpower, Endurance and Intelligence do the same exact thing as health, Magicka, and Stamina. Personality is useless, I tried in the last topic to make it work but I don't think 10 points higher despostion will work. I like Wisdom and Dragonblood much better.



The point of this topic is to give an idea to Beth on how they could put Attributes back in but without making them more important then Perks.

Emm... Your idea is not even closely that great for Beth to put it in on such late development cycles.

Dragonblood and Wisdom? Seriously? Does anyone even support this idea?

Not meaning to be offensive, but that seems too weird for me...

not to mention, i've seen posts stating that the dev team does not come to this forum?

I wouldn't say that Dragonblood or Wisdom are bad but would you rather me double the power of Wisdom and have it be 50 Magic Resistance at 20 points or Dragonblood at 20 points having the Recharge rate cut for Dragon Shouts cut in half. I know the latter is broken and the former is powerful in that situation.

Not true, I see devs all the time. However, I do think it is too late to be messing with the leveling system.

I don't think it messes the leveling system up at all. It would be more of an addition to the system. Every 3 levels you would be able to put a point into an Attribute. Skills are the main point in leveling up and I want to keep it that way with Attributes being in the background not affecting the skills. I'm not advocating getting rid of perks as they too will be included in this system.

Now I've read your OP carefully and here's more constructive criticism:
Why do you want a S.P.E.C.I.A.L.-like RP system in TES? There's too much stuff from Fallout already in.
What's the point of Dragonblood attribute? I am pretty sure that consuming dragon souls will do its work (not confirmed, but what could it be for else?). And
<non-constructive> it's lame non-constructive>.
If you want your system in, why can't you call your Wisdom Attribute just Willpower? In OB this attribute did the same thing, and Wisdom doesn't fit the functions at all
Your system will cause much bigger rejection from fans than the removal of attributes, because they work like Fallout's, they work different, they are not even named like b4.
And finally (it takes time for me to write in English): how do you imagine implementing your system? Some of the devs come on the forums, see your post and say "Damn, that's much better than what we were developing for months! Let's screw our system to fit this awesome stuff in!" Seriously? And then say to us all like "We've seen a great thing on the forums, so now attributes are back, ok?" Absolutely not gonna happen. Even just because simple human pride.

And of course, if that is not enough, it's absolutely too late to make any of this

EDIT: Just read one more thing: adding points to attributes during the game is bad thing in this case too, because it makes you overpowered. On level 50 you get 16 additional points, so you can raise some attributes to the clouds. That is not good. And such things make the implementation of this much less possible, because you need months to tweak a roleplaying system.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that much of the stuff your attributes do is already implemented as perks (especially the Wisdom part). So that makes them mess with perks very much too.

This sums up the thread quite nicely.

Did you not read the point where at level 60 you stop getting Attribute points or the point where you only get 1 Attribute point every 3 levels.

I can't have attributes be like they were in Oblivion. There is a reason why Beth took them out because they got too involved with the skills. This system fixes that problem.

Dont like "Dragonblood" Terror. Luck could do more. Bring back Willpower and have it do what Dragonblood does, plus other things.

I don't think dragonblood would be appropriate because it is not an attribute that all NPC's could have or use. (Big balance no no)

What I've written:

Make it level... maybe 15, and we'll talk. Or increase your starting rates and review your formulas so each point will give less power. Than it may be possible. You see, the roleplaying systems need much theoretical work and even more testing to get to release, and Beth has no time for that at all.

Anyway, I'm outta here, and none of this is going to happen

This is for a mod, not some requests to the devs.

Gonna put this here for Terror, since people like to drum the - Perks handle attributes line- also once again, Spell comboing is a feature not present 4 months ago, and the feature that allows spell comboing to be, Dual wielding, is a late comer to the game and wasn't even in the initial design, these features effect everything in the game, so why can't terrors Idea or for that matter, any idea not be applicable? they aren't even done with horses :shrug: if your here to just shoot down ideas just move along, nothing to see here, but this bit about perks doing what attributes do when Todds statements say otherwise, and how its too late to do anything are silly remarks, let Terror and those who submit ideas speak, there are threads about mutliplayer in Skyrim....Skyrim doesnt have MP...and yet its still being discussed...really.




Now gamer interview ---- http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1316/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-bethesda-interview?o=4#listing






do you see perks? oh no? from what Im reading just as I would click a button in Oblivion to raise skills on level up, thats what Im doing for my status bars H/M/S


Giant Bomb --- http://www.giantbomb.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/61-33394/





once again, Perks are for skills...not attributes, not effect personality, speed, endurance etc etc because these are not skills


1up http://www.1up.com/previews/elder-scrolls-skyrim-seven-things-need-to-know



Quote






Perks are for skills...wonder how long it takes until people realize perks ARE NOT attributes

OP requested close.