An Idea to put the 8 attributes back into Skyrim : V - Skyrim

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:30 am

Speed is no in sprint, strength is now in perks for the damage part (used to be strength and skills for damage and now it's perks and skills) and chances are encumbrance is under Stamina. Personality is logically under speechcraft, which personally I think was a long time coming. Luck has always been something in the background but also we already know that there are perks for critical strikes for swords and what not as well. Intelligence as I said, really didn't make sense because your intelligence doesn't actually increase over time and how smart you character is should be decided by you, not some arbitrary number that didn't make sense. Someone who is good at destruction magic or alchemy doesn't have to be smart, it's a trade, you don't have to be overall intelligent to be a master of something like the magical arts or making potions. The list goes on but they are all still in the game, just really everything you had control over (basically just H/M/S) is still under your control and the little secondary effects are there still somewhat in your control, so in reality you didn't lose any of your control over those attributes and their effects, you just lost 8 words that labeled those effects. Those effects just have new labels.

@Keltic Well how intelligent you are shouldn't decide you can read or not, because someone can be dumb and still read and if they are somewhat familiar with the skill they are reading about, they can learn from it. However, if someone wants to RP that their character can't read, then they can make sure that they don't accidentally read a book while playing. Some things are just going to have to be left to the player to decide to RP in their own imagination, otherwise it could hamper someone else and how they decide to RP. It could be really annoying to some if they end up not being able to read lore books because their character's intelligence isn't high enough (which I don't ever touch on my warriors) even though my warriors are intelligent (because I decide my Argonian warrior is a clever little argonian).

@Terror of Death Btw, the old attributes aren't "Oblivion's version", they are what have been in TES as a whole.

That is true but they used the attributes of old and not a new version. There's a reason why my Strength doesn't deal with Weapon Damage and only deals with Encumberence.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:00 pm

I don't think they will be any fortify health spells

Why not?

Oh I knew they did that but they probably used the old version of Attributes from Oblivion and not the Attribute System that I proposed. My system would be better suited for Skyrim over Oblivion's system because Oblivion's Attributes overlapped with Skills. My Attributes don't really affect skills at all, The Attributes are mainly additions or in Strength's case it's own group.

And you don't think that a few dozen of them sat around for more than 5 min trying to come up with a way to make it work before scrapping the old system?

I mean -Actually- in there, not these people saying they actually believe Todd when he says they are.

Fixed that for you.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:25 am

Fixed that for you.

:clap: Thank you, maybe he will listen to you because he just ignores the rest of us and says we are pulling it out of our ass even though Todd said it himself that their effects are still in the game.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:49 am

:clap: Thank you, maybe he will listen to you because he just ignores the rest of us and says we are pulling it out of our ass even though Todd said it himself that their effects are still in the game.

LINKEH PLAESE> where he explicitly says Attributes like Strenght are in heath or even its effects that allow you to carry more and deal more damage as in damage dealt with weapon which is an effect strenght does for EVERY weapon nothing to do with what you think realife is about, but what the game states.

Below, no you are absolutely correct, the "fixed it for you guy" is the same one who said I was implying something in my post...simplification? based on Community terminology instead of what I actually postedc >_>

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:56 pm

maybe he will listen to you

Now, there's optimistic, and then there's this.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:49 am

Why not?

Only 85 spells that's probably the main reason why

And you don't think that a few dozen of them sat around for more than 5 min trying to come up with a way to make it work before scrapping the old system?

They probably had a 2 hour meeting after a week of testing and they decided in that meeting that yeah Attributes won't work. They probably used the old system of attributes and those definitely won't work with Skyrim. I'm glad they realized that but what they could've done was what I proposed in the OP. Have the Attributes be less important then the Perks but keep them in the game. Like instead of Strength doing both Damage and Encumberence just have it be Encumberence.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:13 am

LINKEH PLAESE>

you dont need a link you just have to understand how it works
if there is recharging magicka then there will be a variable for intellegence (or willpower I forgot which)
if there is a limit on what you can carry then there will be a variable for strength
but I did hear he said that

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:31 am

you dont need a link you just have to understand how it works
if there is recharging magicka then there will be a variable for intellegence (or willpower I forgot which)
if there is a limit on what you can carry then there will be a variable for strength
but I did hear he said that

k look lol lets keep this about Terror....please...you and I have not played the game, but your giving me In depth functioning about how it works based on Todd saying the effects are there...

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:26 pm

LINKEH PLAESE> where he explicitly says Attributes like Strenght are in heath or even its effects that allow you to carry more and deal more damage as in damage dealt with weapon which is an effect strenght does for EVERY weapon nothing to do with what you think realife is about, but what the game states.

Tell you what i got the link right here and i'll post it just as soon as you come up with the last three links you promised to back to up your so called quotes. I'm really starting to think you just skim over everything. I'll give you a hint though it's in a video interview released this very week.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:43 am

Tell you what i got the link right here and i'll post it just as soon as you come up with the last three links you promised to back to up your so called quotes. I'm really starting to think you just skim over everything. I'll give you a hint though it's in a video interview released this very week.

3? I know I said 1 >_> hold on.

here ya go, proof that Terrors system is never too late. http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1316/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-bethesda-interview

When I play, I feel your best bet is to focus on something but it’s so easy to mix and match you will naturally experiment with it. Like dual-wielding. We only added that late – it wasn’t in the initial design but it felt so natural to do it so in the office we tend to mix styles a lot.

And Terrors proposal doesnt count as mix styles alot? yeah out of context if thats what it means regards to DW but it still stands.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:05 am

Hey guys if you want to debate that you can but not in this topic. This is about my Attribute system that I'm proposing for Skyrim. If you want to talk about the merits of Attributes being good or bad or Perks are better then attributes or a video link that has todd talking about it you can do it in another topic.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:16 am

Hey guys if you want to debate that you can but not in this topic. This is about my Attribute system that I'm proposing for Skyrim. If you want to talk about the merits of Attributes being good or bad or Perks are better then attributes or a video link that has todd talking about it you can do it in another topic.

1. If we're talking about attributes, we're talking about your attributes too. Your attributes are pretty much the exact same thing with half (sometimes nothing) cut out. The validity of the quote about attribute effects still being in the game is very much relevant to the thread, because everything you posted will still be covered in the new system if it's true.

2. Your first response to me mentioned that you thought other smart peoples could expand on your idea. We're deflating it instead. That's perfectly valid discussion.

3. You could take this time to expand on your ideas. You really should anyway.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:00 am

lol..........deflating his Idea...what for? exactly, theres critic, improvement then theres blatently repeating what he already knows. if you haven't guess he had no problem and is in fact for the attribute system to be gone, and as he said, his method doesnt supercede perks...I don't see why not. but really, come now lol.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:00 am

There's still some time that it could be changed but with E3 coming up in two months I'm not optimsitic.

There's not a hope in hell. They made the design decision a long time ago and they're not going to change it at the last minute. And yes, in terms of game development it would be the last minute. The game will essentially be finished by now, they'll just be fixing a few bugs here and there and doing some final polishing up of some features.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:20 pm

If horses don't work...they will pull it out at the last minute.

if the spell combo system is sixy and they like it, it will be permenant, its not even a true feature yet, they were "experimenting" with that as well

etc etc.........

whos to say Terrors system or even more so the many people for a new system that includes attributes, Not just H/M/S could get in? I've alredy given examples about late game changing features......

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:25 am

This is about my Attribute system that I'm proposing for Skyrim.

Sorry, but if you're planning on playing the game on a console, and not get the PC version so you can create your own mod for your "system", then this is all just meaningless pvssyr that accomplishes nothing. I apologize for being so blunt, but that's how it is. Bethesda is not going to redo the game just for you.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:17 am

whos to say Terrors system or even more so the many people for a new system that includes attributes, Not just H/M/S could get in? I've alredy given examples about late game changing features......

Because they'd have to change far too much in order to work it in. It would affect nearly everything in the game, from redoing the UI to re-balancing the various quests and encounters, and that's just not an option at this point.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:41 am

I think the OP's system fixes the major problems with attributes in Oblivion. Infact it shows pretty clearly how easy those problems were to fix, for those who hadn't played mods that already proved that.

Ironically, I don't think the model's use of those attributes makes a compelling case for their reinstatement beyond the RP value that some people attach to attributes. However, as Terror has said several times now the purpose of this thread was not to be another attributes vs perks debate.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:00 am

3? I know I said 1 >_> hold on.
here ya go, proof that Terrors system is never too late. http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1316/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-bethesda-interview

Sure, 1 in this thread. How about a quote? I can't find anything in those 5 pages eluding to leveling being up in the air.

Hey guys if you want to debate that you can but not in this topic. This is about my Attribute system that I'm proposing for Skyrim. If you want to talk about the merits of Attributes being good or bad or Perks are better then attributes or a video link that has todd talking about it you can do it in another topic.

I reiterate then...

I don't think they will be any fortify health spells

Why not?

Oh I knew they did that but they probably used the old version of Attributes from Oblivion and not the Attribute System that I proposed. My system would be better suited for Skyrim over Oblivion's system because Oblivion's Attributes overlapped with Skills. My Attributes don't really affect skills at all, The Attributes are mainly additions or in Strength's case it's own group.

And you don't think that a few dozen of them sat around for more than 5 min trying to come up with a way to make it work before scrapping the old system?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:58 am

Sure, 1 in this thread. How about a quote? I can't find anything in those 5 pages eluding to leveling being up in the air.

>_> I didn't say anything about leveling >_> and I gave a qoute to what I was talking about. IN this thread Dual wielding being a late addition, and most people already know there were no Spell comboing in Skyrim 4 months ago...which is being experimented with >_>

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:18 am

What effects overall Magicka pool in your system Terror?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:25 pm

IN this thread Dual wielding being a late addition, and most people already know there were no Spell comboing in Skyrim 4 months ago...which is being experimented with >_>

There's a big difference between a frill like dual-wielding and a basic game mechanic like leveling and character progression. It would have been one of the first things they would have developed, with a large part of the rest of the game revolving around that. By now they're dealing with balance issues and fine-tuning, so there's no way they're going to go back and start the whole process all over again.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:03 pm

To OP. I agree with your post and had a similar idea.

Your 1 point to a real attribute every 5 levels would eliminate the 100 chase and would use them to be a multiplier to skills and perks. (However I could live without luck and personality)

The higher the attribute the more effectiveness for the skill and vice versa. I even put forth the idea of static attributes just so there would be a difference between the races and genders.

I am still going through my 5 stages of grief due to loss of attributes; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. So far I have been through the Denial and Anger phase. Right now I am going through Bargaining to get some portion of the attributes back.

I have serious doubts my feeble attempts to bargain will work on this forum stage or with any Bethesda top brass. So I expect the depression phase to come soon...

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:54 am

I think the OP's system fixes the major problems with attributes in Oblivion. Infact it shows pretty clearly how easy those problems were to fix, for those who hadn't played mods that already proved that.

Ironically, I don't think the model's use of those attributes makes a compelling case for their reinstatement beyond the RP value that some people attach to attributes. However, as Terror has said several times now the purpose of this thread was not to be another attributes vs perks debate.

Give me more time and I could come up with more interesting effects for the attributes, however I don't want the attributes dealing with damage as Skills/perks should be the ones focusing on damage. Hence why Strength's only effect is Encumberence.

What effects overall Magicka pool in your system Terror?

The Magicka Status Attribute. I had Intelligence at 1st and it was going to be included with Magicka but Magicka pretty much does the same thing and this allows me to have Intelligence be unique. I went with Lower Spell cost because the higher your intelligence the smarter you get.

To OP. I agree with your post and had a similar idea.

Your 1 point to a real attribute every 5 levels would eliminate the 100 chase and would use them to be a multiplier to skills and perks. (However I could live without luck and personality)

The higher the attribute the more effectiveness for the skill and vice versa. I even put forth the idea of static attributes just so there would be a difference between the races and genders.

I am still going through my 5 stages of grief due to loss of attributes; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. So far I have been through the Denial and Anger phase. Right now I am going through Bargaining to get some portion of the attributes back.

I have serious doubts my feeble attempts to bargain will work on this forum stage or with any Bethesda top brass. So I expect the depression phase to come soon...

That's kinda the reason why I went every 5 levels to avoid maxing out characters attributes and also I went with 20-50 over 30-100. The Skills aren't effected by Attributes, I did that so Skills can be more important but also have attributes in the background.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:03 pm

That is actually a terrible idea, no thank you. Bad bad bad.