This topic isn't about are Attributes good or bad or Should Attributes be in or out. This topic is about my idea that I have about trying some way to get Attributes to be in Skyrim but not have it be like Oblivion. I also don't want to get rid of Health, Magicka or Stamina nor have us go back to Oblivion's Attribute governed skill system of major/minor.


I was thinking of this earlier today and I thought of the reasons why Beth took the attributes out and just went with Health, Magicka, and Stamina. I understand how bad attributes were in Oblivion. The main problem was that the skills has a govern attribute, all the attributes made it to 100 and you had to use skills that you would never use in order to get a +5. Now with the addition of perks Beth went with the reason that Perks could do the same thing as Attributes and they can, but they can't here's why. Attributes did more then just + number per level they had effects. Strength affected encumberence, Speed affected how much you moved, etc. Not to mention that Attributes showed you where your character was and in Skyrim everybody's character is going to be the same when they start out minus some stat changes due to race and different starting bonuses in skills also based off of race.

This is what I propose, keep Health, Magicka and Stamina in but also include the 8 attributes from Oblivion. Now instead of doing a 30-100 model and then having everybody's character get to 100 stats at certain level, we could go with a 20-50 attribute setup and you get +5 attribute points every 5 levels instead of every level. The Reason for every 5 levels is similar to the reasoning that a perk in Fallout new vegas is every other level, it makes more characters diverse and it makes your choices even more important. Now of course there is a counter argument "Well what about the perks, if you do this then the perks aren't important". That argument is solved by making the 8 Attributes do mainly one thing instead of a couple things like in Oblivion.

Now since we are going with a 20-50 setup for attributes how would be determine where the races started attribute wise under this system. The 20 attribute area is in the low end bracket that's where Bretons would go with Strength, Redguards with INT, etc. The 25 Attribute area is the middle ground and The 30 Attribute area is reserved for characters that are good in a particular attribute like Bretons with Intelligence, Nords with Strength, etc. It's similar to how Oblivion started the Attributes 20=30, 25=40, 30=50 and luck always starts out at 25. This is a basic idea as to what the attributes could do in Skyrim.

Strength- Affects the amount of weight that you have. 1 point of strength equals 10 weight. If you have 30 strength that equals 300 pounds of Encumberence.

Intelligence- Affects the amount of Magicka your spells cost. For every point of INT your spell cost would be lowered by 2 points. No spell cost can go below 5 points or 10 points as we don't want 1 magic point lightning spells.

Willpower- Affects Magicka Regeneration. For every 5 points of Willpower your magicka would regenerate 1 magicka point faster. Stamina would deal with Stamina Regeneration.

Endurance- Determines how much Health you will get per level outside of choosing the Health Attribute. For every 5 points of Endurance you get an increase of 2 points more of health per level.

Speed- Determines how fast you are. For every 10 points of speed your running speed is increased by 10 % off of a base set speed.

Agility- Determines staggering rate. For every 10 points of Agility your stagger rate is decreased by 10 % off of a set Stagger rate number.

Personality- Determines how NPC's view you. For every 10 points of Personality your despostion with NPC's goes up 10 points from a base starting point of 30.

Luck- Determines how lucky you are. The higher your luck also means a higher chance at getting rare items. For every 10 points of luck the rate that an item appears whether it's a random enchanted Armor or gold goes up 10%.

This would be an example of a characters starting attributes.

Breton
Strength 20
Intelligence 30
Willpower 30
Agility 25
Speed 25
Endurance 20
Luck 25
Personality 25

Nord
Strength 30
Intelligence 20
Willpower 25
Agility 25
Speed 25
Endurance 30
Luck 25
Personality 20

I really hope that my idea is at least looked at and considered. If it's too late to put Attributes back in I completely understand and I also will be happy under the perk system since Beth fixed the flaw that Fallout 3 had with Perks. Fallout 3 had too few of perks, now that we have around 280 perks our characters will be more diverse and our perk choices will be even more important.

Your joke serves as a perfect window to your personality.

As to the OP, are you familiar with the acronym S.O.L.? I'm fairly certain that Bethesda is going to do exactly what they want to do with the game and attributes - it's probably already done and I *really* don't think they're going to come out here, see your post, and go: "You know what? Scrap what we've done! THIS guy has the right idea!"

Yeah, it had that sarcastic bite I fancy so much.
But In response,
Did they put something funny in today's tap water?
Everyone's acting strangely.
Maybe it's the Royal wedding.
:biggrin:

I don't think reverting back to a multitude of attributes'd be a good thing. Let's give the new system a chance. It sounds sound to me.

Why not create an artificial representation of attributes and calculate them according to what's in game, perks, skills, remaining stats. Give some meaningful values to strength related stuff, add them up, scale along 0-100. Now you have a strength attribute representation. Totally outside of the system but meaningful enough to represent attributes and have roleplaying value. Many sports games do this, attributes are calculated from skills. A one way representation.

If you really want attributes back, that is.

Back on topic!

Atributes are out, i like it, you dont, its to late to change core fictures of the game, simple as that, ask for stuff that can be done in 3-5 months, not a Game Revamp.

And yes Atributes its a game Revamp no mater how you look at it!

ask for More items, A cool cave, hair options, stuff like that,

Did anybody read the 1st line of this topic. The Attributes are they in or out or perks are better is something that I'm trying to avoid.



I want the new system in I just think that they could also accomdiate Attributes in as well and what I propose is as close to the best solution with out making Attributes more important then Perks.

How about we just use the system in place before we say it svcks. I get it that no one here likes change, but maybe we can just try it for once, like big kids! :spotted owl:

I like the changes heck the change to leveling by having every skill be a major is easily the best thing that's happened gameplay wise. Like I said earlier I don't want Attributes being governed by Skills. That would be the wrong direction.

Attributes were removed because of redundancy. 8 filtered down to 3.

Where's ma agility? I need to play more WOW to compensate the loss.

I know, and all they could've done is make the attributes less important. Have it be 5 levels instaed of 1 and have it be a 20-50 format instead of a 30-100 format.

And regardless of all that, this late in the development cycle, of a game they've been working on for years?


They're not going to make major changes to some of the central game mechanics of their game. Attributes are out. And that's all there is to it.

Okay first, there is only a couple of months to get the game ready for the manufacturers and for Sony and Microsoft to do their thing before the game is released, so any changes you might suggest are moot.

Second, You have no idea how things are going to work in game as you are not playing it. Making judgments on how a developer has chosen to make their game isn't likely to carry a whole lot of weight since it's their project, and as far as I can tell, no one asked us what to change or not to change.

Third, It seems to me that if they made the system simpler then they might just have more room for better lock picking, or climbing, or crafting, etc.

I might suggest giving the new system a try before deeming it wrong and unacceptable. Hell you might even like it.

Hopefully you can accept change and that attributes are gone. Its over, they were redundant in the first place, why not just alter what you were affecting in the first place? Makes it a lot easier/simpler. And simpler in a good way, which is why people mention redundant.

I don't think it would be too hard to put them back in. All you would need to do is program some new factors in, adjust the perks a little bit heck you could come up with new ones to replace the attribute type perks. My system is a starting point at least.

I agree, it is.


Strength- Affects the amount of weight you can carry, compunds with endurance. as well as the amount of base damage you can deal

• 1 point of strength equals 10 weight. If you have 30 strength that equals 300 pounds of Encumberence.
  
• Also dictates the amount of strenght you are able to put into a weapon swing, as well as the maximum threshold you can black without Staggering

Intelligence-Affects the amount of Magicka your spells cost, compunds with personality

• . For every point of INT your spell cost would be lowered by 2 points. No spell cost can go below 5 points or 10 points as we don't want 1 magic point lightning spells.
  
• Effects the amount of spells you can learn, frequency to learning them and casting them, higher instances allow for more complex spells all the way up to rituals and summoning pacts, the Higher your INT the more options availible with certian summonings

Willpower- Affects Magicka Regeneration as well as functioning under debuffs, curses, an negetive stats.

• For every 5 points of Willpower your magicka would regenerate 1 magicka point faster. Stamina would deal with Stamina Regeneration.
  
• effects how quickly you are able to restore stamina as well as how quickly it diminishes during a fight.
  
• boosts against state debuffs caused by magical debuffs and natural means
  
• also effects the damage dealt by magical attacks, their effectiveness, and how often you can use them without tiring.

Endurance- Determines how much Health and resistance availible to your character

• you will get per level outside of choosing the Health Attribute. For every 5 points of Endurance you get an increase of 2 points more of health per level.
  
• also determines the flexibility and resistance the character has against Fatigue as well as the total amount of Stamina
  
• determines the maximum amount of weight you can haul both indefinently and the amount you can move until your Stamina starts to drop
  
• how susceptible you are to negetive stats

Speed-Determines how fast you are.

• For every 10 points of speed your running speed is increased by 10 % off of a base set speed.
  
• compounded with agility and luck can aid in successfully dodging attacks
  
• governs how swiftly ones body moves with regards to attacks and movement

Agility Dexterity-Determines staggering rate.

• For every 10 points of Agility your stagger rate is decreased by 10 % off of a set Stagger rate number.
  
• Chief of strenous movement and acrobatics, Dexterity governs your characters full range of movements in Heavy, Medium, Light and no armor
  
• the Higher your dexterity the less of a hit your stamina takes on excessive movement without rest
  
• Where strenght dictates the amount of force you are able to employ, Dexterity, and corrosponding skills would direct how well that damage is focused on a target, limiting the amount of unused force on an opponent

Personality-

• Determines how NPC's view you. For every 10 points of Personality your despostion with NPC's goes up 10 points from a base starting point of 30.
  
• the base for skills such as speechcraft and Mercantile, your personality effects how well you are able to garner information and play out first impressions on other NPC's

Luck- Determines how lucky you are. The higher your luck also means a higher chance at getting rare items. For every 10 points of luck the rate that an item appears whether it's a random enchanted Armor or gold goes up 10%.


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its now 8 folded into three :teehee: !!!

...No......they are status bars, like they have ALWAYS been, like i said in another thread, your telling me when I lose my heath bar I get weaker in strenght Ah wishful thinking, oh and when Stamina goes to 0 during a fight, all of a sudden I have to drop EVERYTHING im carrying? no we probably won't see anything like that, it would rage players too much, as a specific post on the first page stated.

Its Redundant! and the perks make it Redundant! :teehee:

Um...As far as I've read, Perks are for skills, Perks are always good, Perks are not weaknesses or shortcomings, perks do not Degrade, Perks add not take away, Perks which again have been stated for skills, last I checked there are no Endurance skill, or Health Skill, do not add health or Increase resistances to weapons or anything of that matter. and please stop telling people they haven't played the game so they wouldn't know but at the same time telling them Perks do this and That When YOU haven't played the game either.


if your hear to complain about Attributes being in or out this isnt the thread, its an Idea thread. not a perk hate thread or whatever you think it is.

I think you might have added in too many factors but it's not completely terrible though.

Why can't this be handled by perks alone? Or Stamina, or even Health?


Why can't this be handled by skills alone?


Why can't this be handled by the Magicka attribute?


Why can't this be handled by the Health attribute (hint: it already pretty much is!)


Why can't this be handled by perks alone, or Stamina, or as a function of current and max Encumbrance, or any combination of the three?


Why can't this be handled by perks alone?


Why not let Speechcraft have some actual use this time around?


Why even bother with this? I want my loot to be rare or static.

I appreciate that you're attempting to come up with some not broken solution to Attributes, but what you've given us is more redundant than the old system. The three attributes we've been given make some of the old attributes completely redundant because they're almost exactly the same thing (Health is Endurance, Intelligence/Willpower is Magicka).

I still believe that only three of the old attributes offer anything not easily replaced by perks. Agility's stagger chance, which was never significant enough for me to care about. Strength's encumbrance and damage increase, which CAN be replaced by perks but it will be more awkward than other attribute effects. And Luck, which I honestly think the game has never needed anyway. The loss of these three is no big loss compared to what we're getting, even IF their effects ultimately aren't covered by perks.


"Mommmmy, I want Intelligence!"
"You'll get what you get and you'll like it!"

Actually sounds a lot like how leveling used to work. "Crap, only a x2 Willpower multiplier. Guess I'm picking Strength."

D:!!!!!!!!!!! you said it was an Idea D:


gonna make me cry.

yes I did, It needs refining, LIKE THE OLD SYSTEM? lol

Attributes are gone, deal with it. They aren't going to completely rework the game at this point, that part at least is obviously over and done with. If you actually start playing the game and figure out how things works, and find you don't like the new system, then make a mod or wait for someone else to do it for you.

Its an Idea thread...not why are attributes gone thread :teehee:

I don't understand the point of this thread.

I imagine what you're proposing is simply not possible to include in a mod. Maybe we will know more after release of the Creation Kit.

Refining? NAY! Throw it away instead!
:tongue:

All of those are good points but the main problem is all of the characters will start out the same. The only differences is a higher bonus in starting skills for certain races and a higher starting stat bonuses also affected by race. The other thing is that I don't want to have Attributes be more important then Perks what I want them to be is there so that it shows how strong your chracter is hence why I tried to simplify them the best I could. It's just a starting point though as I know there are better minds out there then what I've got.

because H/M/S are status bars, not indicators of how strong/fast/smart/ you are.......



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I don't understand the point of the Multiplayer discussion thread either....when there is no Multiplayer in Skyrim....but I discuss it anyway