Don't forget physics, and all the non action elements that were added.

Care to enlighten us as to why you disagree with every other forum opinion I have read on these forums?

There's a difference between bias and opinion. They can be hard to differentiate, and can even be the same sometimes, but there is a difference.


While I don't necessarily agree with that statement, there were some things that I really didn't like about Shivering Isles. I thought it was better than Oblivion by a long shot, but one thing that really turned me off about it was its lack of lore correctness. What ever happened to, "No man has ever escaped the Madgod's realm with his sanity"? Yeah, it was really insane. <_<

And don't even get me started on the ending.

Lack of lore-correctness? Nobody questioned the ascension of Tiber Septim to Talos. The Champion of Cyrodiil became the embodiment of madness(and if not, as a Shezzarine, was no mere mortal, anyway, but others coming from the gate all became insane). Why is that so hard to accept? He/she didn't just become a Daedric Prince. By Jyggalag's words to the CoC, we know the CoC is only filling Sheogorath's place, but is still in the process of mantling him and is probably still be a mortal. His/her fate is not certain, but it is not incorrect by lore standards, especially considering THIS IS BETHESDA'S LORE TO INTRODUCE AND CHANGE HOW THEY SEE FIT(fans act as if Bethesda's development team was replaced by monkeys who know nothing about the lore created by the old development team, who somehow disappeared as mysteriously as the Dwemer and left only idiots in their place, idiots who know nothing about lore and somehow manage to screw everything up in the fans' eyes). The story gave new lore on Jyggalag, who had very little known about him before SI and worked quite well. People only seem to criticize lore when Oblivion introduces/changes it(SI never changed lore, though), but no one criticizes the rise of Talos, Mannimarco becoming a god, the Tribunal becoming gods, the giant stomping robot(Numidium), or the Nerevarine being a walking, god-slaying killing machine. If I recall things correctly, I believe Bethesda are the lore-masters who created it all, not the fans.

This has little relevance to what I've said because I didn't elaborate at all on the ending. The lack of lore correctness was referring to how sane the Shivering Isles really was, not the ending. The only thing I even hinted about the ending was that I did not like it. Other than that, this post has really nothing to do with anything I even mentioned.

Does this even matter? You've said repeatedly that everything lore-related Bethesda puts forth is perfect by definition because it comes from Bethesda, and it doesn't matter what the actual writing quality or consistency or anything is, as long as it has Bethesda's stamp on it.

I had to pick Oblivion, for a few reasons,
1.Combat-In Oblivion, if I fire an arrow at someone, I KNOW it will hit them
2.NPC's-Sure they're not as dialogue advanced as preferred BUT the AI schedules really made the game better for me
3.Story-I've played Morrowind before, I know alot of the story already(thanks to big mouthed members) and while intriguing, I found Oblivion's to be fun, and people need to stop being so biased torwards Morrowind. I love Morrowind with all my love, but I can't lie (now)
4.Guilds-Questlines were more creative, simple as that
5.Character Customization-Oblivion had alot, Morrowind had very liitle (i'm talking faces, hairstyles all that good stuff.)
Oblivion wins in my book, but not by much. I do however think that people need to stop being so damned biased

That is not my point here. My point is that only Oblivion's lore gets criticized, as if, as I said, Bethesda's development team was replaces by monkeys who know nothing of Elder Scrolls lore and that Morrowind's lore followed all lore perfectly and was sheer greatness while Oblivion messed up all lore and is unworthy of seeing the light of day(cue hissing sound). I did overreact to that last post, though, and I apologize for picking at a small, irrelevant details. I only wish that such details stop finding their way in every thread. Nobody ever complements Oblivion and only compliments Oblivion. There's always a "but " with posts about Oblivion, assuming there is a compliment at all. Perhaps this lack of compliments will result in some great parts of Oblivion being absent in the next Elder Scrolls game, such as what happened with the Morrowind-Oblivion transition. There's always a problem, but never any praise. Regardless, I'll stop my rambling, now. I would be happy to continue this through PM, if you wish to respond.

Yes, people in general - me especially - criticize Oblivion's lore a lot more than Morrowind's or Daggerfall's. There are two possible explanations for that.

1. People are extra tough on Oblivion for unfair reasons that are unrelated to its actual quality of writing (for example because it's "the new game").

2. Oblivion's writing quality really *is* way worse than Morrowind's or Daggerfall's, and peoples' comments are reflecting the unbiased truth.

Please, stop discounting #2. I'm not saying you have to agree that #2 is correct, just consider the possibility. People criticizing A more than B does NOT in itself imply a bias because not all things are of equal quality.

I'll shut up now.. that's my only point.. no need to take it to PMs

That's not true. Lots of people complain about Morrowind's lore and draw up lists of the discrepancies.

And about the rest of your rant... you'll know how we feel when TESV comes out. You don't believe me now. And, when you start playing TESV, you'll deny it for a while. But, sooner or later, you'll know how we feel.

Baa haha!

How can you be biased when asked which is your favorite game? No one here had anything to do with the production of either game. Everyone here has played both games. So how could someone be biased to one game or another?

To some people, "bias" means not criticizing/praising everything equally . In any dispute, both sides have to have equal shares of the truth. Always!

Bias is an unavoidable part of all people. Everyone is biased in some form or another, so bias is not something to be hated or rejected. If people like Morrowind more than Oblivion, there is no problem. There is no truth to preferences, however mutual respect would be nice. Most people show it on these forums, but not all people. In my opinion, bias and preference are not problems. I'm not fond of lack of mutual respect, though. As I said, most people here show that, however.

When I said "bias" I mean that the majority of this particular forum, the ES General forum, seems to lean towards Morrowind.

I know that a preference is not a bias. The forum itself is biased, not the people in it.

This^
While many forum goers are not like this,
some are, and being biased by unfairly bashing Oblivion, simply because it didn't live up to be the great successor to the grand Morrowind

@Steve-Do you know that everyone here has played both games or are you just assuming, as I figure?

Just like the Persians bashed King Cambyses.

Maybe your eyes are biased, because I just see a general bashing of everything and everyone going on.

EDIT: Not that I'm implying Oblivion is a drunk, crazy cow-killer. Not implying that it isn't, though.

Graphics: Oblivion just barely wins in this department, but it gets absolutely no help from the artistic direction. Oblivion is prettier to look at (even in it's own time, Morrowind's animations bugged the piss out of me), but it's too generic. I could walk from the IC to Chorrol and never leave 13th-16th century Europe. Morrowind was an absolute joy to explore, and it felt much more realized.

Game Mechanics: Oblivion wins here. It's funny, but the idea of a percent chance to strike never struck me as odd until I returned to Morrowind after Oblivion. I miss the unarmored skill though.

Storyline: Is there seriously any contest here? Morrowind had excellent writing. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that Oblivion is voice-acted whereas Morrowind could use the space to develop characters and flesh out its world. And the guilds in Morrowind put the ones in Oblivion to shame. Morrowind had better guild plot-lines, and almost three times as many to join.

Roleplay: This one's a hard topic on which to comment, since I tend to roleplay myself. Being evil is just too damned hard. I would say that Oblivion probably gives more opportunity to roleplay, but Morrowind gives the player the opportunity to choose sides in a conflict.

Community quality: I was never a part of the Morrowind community, so I can't comment here.

Add-on quality: I played Morrowind on console, so it's impossible for me to judge. The Tamriel Rebuilt team has done a bang-up job with the rest of the province, and there are a lot of really good mods. Someone else commented that Oblivion's engine makes it possible to do more things with the game, and so on that basis Oblivion wins. Of course, many mods go to fixing what Bethesda did with the game -- Morrowind was pretty spectacular as-is.

Overall: I am so heavily biased toward Morrowind that I can't answer this fairly. Morrowind is my standard to which all other games are held. Oblivion is a lovely game, but it felt incredibly dumbed-down. I could spend an hour explaining the plot and background of Morrowind to someone; I could do the same with Oblivion in several minutes. For a gamer who lives for lore and a fleshed-out universe, Morrowind is the superior game.

Morrowind is better in every way including graphics. Graphics isn't just all about being shiny and new. It's also about art direction, and Oblivion's "art direction" was nothing but a copy paste of generic fantasy land. Maybe if they actually made it according to lore it would win in this department. But it doesn't. And no way Oblivion has better game mechanics than Morrowind, with Oblivion's retarded leveling system where every bandit has super rare armor, and the fact you can join every guild, even if you don't even follow what the guild represents. That's crappy game mechanics folks.

And as for the other sections of the poll, Morrowind wins them all by an absolute landslide.

It is the best generic fantasy land ever then in term of graphics. I remember seeing real life bushes and thinking, "Damn, they are the same!".

But you can't compete with this(with yourself. With yourself I mean Bethesda. Maybe next time. ).
http://saito00.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d28goxa

Bonus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97fiKms9PaI

Definitely disagree. I've explored 100% of Vvardenfells map on multiple characters, and I can say there is no actual "barren" wasteland. Every single square cell of Vvardenfells landmass has something to do in it. A cave, a bandit hideout, a quest related npc, etc. So much to do in MW that it's not even comparable.

Anyway, as for the poll;
Graphics:
I'm gonna say Oblivion obviously, but I honestly like the way Morrowinds graphics look. I'd still rather play it over OB.
Game Mechanics:
Gonna say Morrowind. I miss Morrowinds game mechanics and I still hugely prefer playing it over OB because of this very thing, among others.
Storyline and RP elements:
Without a doubt Morrowind, and I don't even need to explain why.
Community:
Not really sure what you're asking here. But from what I gather from other peoples responses, I'd say Morrowinds community.
Add on Quality:
I was never a user of mods, so I can't say for sure, so I'll just say equal. I'm sure there are some great modders who work on OB and MW.
Overall:
Overall, definitely Morrowind. It's just a better game.

I just want to say that I find it hilarious that the 2 major factors of any game (gameplay, and graphics) were put on the SAME POLL. Like, seriously. What is the point?

Obviously Oblivion has better graphics. There's no possible way for a game being made years later to have worse graphics. Game play, on the other hand, I think was far better in Morrowind. I think the lack of levitation in Oblivion was a huge blunder.

edit: And yes, I agree that Morrowind had superior art, but the graphical quality of Oblivion is just far superior. I mean, look at the polygon counts, everything just looks better because it's higher quality, even if the art is worse.

Uh, very incorrect.
I prefer Morrowinds graphics over Oblivions. A lot of people do. It has more polygons.
Not better graphics, art design, etc.

Doesn't even matter. The point was that putting "game mechanics" and "graphics" on the same poll (in a multi-poll post) is just stupid.

:ninja: I always know.

Seriously though. My reasoning is that very few people, if any, on this forum have played Morrowind, but not Oblivion. And those who have only played Oblivion usually don't scroll down far enough to this forum. Even if there are people in this poll who have only played Oblivion, then it would only contradict the theory that this forum has a Morrowind bias.

It was the Greeks (mainly Herodotus drawing from Eygptian sources) who bashed Cambyses, not the Persians.