Australian actually, I just love those two comedians very much.

I'll probably call it Sheogorath's uncontrollable laughter(or something like that). I like the sound idea, I'll look for a female variant too, I've never used sounds like those before, not even sure how I can listen to them in the CK.

I'll check out the slow effect in detail tomorrow, it's 3am and I'm tired.

Thanks for the ideas. Let me know if you think of any more.

The sounds will be in the bsa files. I took Cicero's out with FOMM and made a makeshift Hideous Laugh. Sounds OK. I could e-mail it to you if you PM me.

It would have to be linked to the spell in some way, either as the casting effect or (preferably) to play as the NPC falls over laughing.

I have a friends group that are mostly in Australia. Mostly ex-pats. I didn't realise Jimmy Carr and Frankie Boyle were popular in Oz. I know no one in the States has ever heard of them!

~.~

This is just mechanically a Rage spell, which is already in the game. No point in redundancy.

As far as illusion goes, I like to look into spells of past games.

I Morrowind, for example, the illusion school had spell effects like Blind (which reduced the chance of an enemy to hit an opponent), Night Eye (let the caster see in the dark without a light source to give away their position), Sanctuary (making the caster harder to hit), Silence (rendering enemies unable to cast spells), and Sound (which creates a disorienting noise in the afflicted's head and reduces an enemy's ability to cast spells. Oblivion also had a Darkness spell effect, which enshrouded a target or the player in darkness, although the spell was never implemented in game. In these earlier games, spells that manipulated light (chameleon, invisibility, light, darkness) all fell under the illusion school. The game of Daggerfall also had Polymorph, or the ability to change shape, as an important spell in the school.

Since they no longer work with Skyrim's mechanics, spells like Blind, Sanctuary, and Sound might be implemented in other ways. You might be able to get Blind to force archers to miss the player, and maybe with Sound you can implement a illusion variant to the "Throw Voice" shout. Polymorph is fully possible in Skyrim. Perhaps changing the player into burial urn (to throw off pursuers) or a draugr (to blend in).

Speaking of blending in, a great illusion spell would be a spell that, when cast upon a target, adds the player to the target's faction(s) for a brief period. That way, you could walk through a crowd of draugr without garnering any ill-will. I would just extremely limit this - since it is basically an OP version of the Calm spell. In fact, you might tie it to a polymorph spell, so the spell has some visual representation.

Another possible spell would be to erase your memory from people's minds. Namely to get guards to forget who you are. Another possibility would be to create an illusion spell that "fogs up" the players face. So people don't recognize who you are. If you're familiar with Nocturnal's Cowl, from Oblivion, I bet you see the advantages to such an effect.

@ ShadeyBladey

I added the exhaustion spell but it doesn't seem to slow the npc down at all. I've tried a bunch of things. The closest thing I got to was making the npc super fast. Detremental was ticked with every experiment.

I'll be adding a few Morrowind spells that I can. There was no Polymorph illusion spell in daggerfall.

The sound one sounds good though. I'm familiar with Nocturnals Cowl, I'll try to add that one eventually.

Thanks for the ideas!

Polymorph would be an Alteration.

hmmm, pulling off an illusion spell that does harm would be difficult as the purpose of illusion is to trick the targets mind.

Did you try negative values, or values between 0 and 1? It's certainly possible to slow down enemies, as one can see from potions of Slow in vanilla, and other spell mods (Apocalypse has one IIRC).

Did you have "Recover" ticked as well?

Doppleganger on target, master level. The victim of the spell fights himself for the duration of the spell or until he dies. I'm thinking about prince of persia 1, where you have to sheathe your sword and not fight your shadow.

Well, you aren't actually transforming into said object/creature. You're manipulating how others see you. That's why it was under the Illusion School in Daggerfall.

In magnitude? No I didn't, I don't know why I didn't try that. Thanks, I'll report back if it doesn't work.

EDIT:No, it doesn't allow negative values.

That just makes things go back to normal once the spell runs out. My first test had it ticked but all the others did not.

I don't see it anywhere. If you aren't actually transforming what use does the spell bear?

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Magic_and_Spells

I don't actually remember that. There were spell effects in the manual that didn't exist in-game, and there was a spell called "Diminution" that either didn't work or could not be found.

It should be ticked.

And you have the MagicSlow keyword etc?

Perhaps you need to make a SlowFFAimed effect as well if the spell is a projectile?

Have a look at

IceSpike SPEL

TrapIceSpike SPEL

FrostSlowFFAimed MGEF

FrostSlowFFContact MGEF

~.~

It was taper weight or ticking power affect for spell making. Anyway, that's fixed now! Pretty happy with it.

Yeah, I was using TIL's http://www.imperial-library.info/content/daggerfall-spells. The spell doesn't actually work in Daggerfall, despite being promised as a new spell by the devs.

However, if you're actually transforming - then yes, I'd agree that the spell would (or should) fall under alteration.

I've been thinking about this since my last post.

How about a circumstantial spell? By that I mean you cast a spell on a target and if there is a trap near by they will walk up to it and set it off on themselves, or if there is a ledge near by they will jump off of it, not sure if npc's drown but if there is a deep body of water near by they will go into it and drown themselves. If there is nothing for them to do to themselves but there is a "friendly" near by they will attack them like a normal rage spell would.

What made me think of this were the Chimes in the Sword of Truth series. They were these spirits that would entrance people and make them kill themselves by walking off cliffs, drowning themselves, or putting themselves in extremely dangerous predicaments. In my opinion a Illusion spell would not actually cause damage on you, but would cause you to hurt yourself by tricking your mind into doing something.

Like you cast it at a bandit and he stands there for a second and then "sees" some one near a trap trigger and he runs to them and sets the trap off on himself. You could even make it visible to the pc by making a "ghost" appear where the trigger would be. Same with a cliff, they run to them only to pass through them and fall to their death. I'm not sure if this is possible, to be able to detect what I am suggesting then have the target run to it, but if it is that would be pretty freaking amazing.

Some good ideas there, but I can't think of a way to implement them. Thanks anyway.

I have enough ideas for damaging spells for humanoids, but I'm struggling to think of something that affects undead and dragons.

If you have any ideas or half ideas towards damaging or forcing damage on themselves(undead or dragons), please post!

Well, traditionally Undead and constructs are immune to illusions because they are mindless and immune to Fear as well (so you need that Master perk in Skyrim), while Dragons are too intelligent to be fooled even by Invisibility, or at least they would have a hefty bonus to their saving throw. Skyrim dragons are immune to Paralysis as well, but not poison. Similarly, Dragons would be very difficult to Charm with Suggestion or any other mind-affecting spell. That is part of the fun of the Illusion school - doing things differently.

For free-willed Undead like Vampires, which still have a mind, I suppose you could try and create an Illusion of a Vigilant of Stendarr, or a Soul Trooper of Meridia or some powerful White Necromancer of Lore that can Turn and Destroy Undead. but that is what Restoration is for.

Or have them run into a fire source that will burn them?

An Illusion of powerful Sunlight? I have a Druid Sunray spell that bathes the area in yellow light and burns Undead, but it is an Alteration as Illusion cannot create it's own light source.

Long-range play with only Illusion as your school would be problematic, as there are areas that cannot be covered by the school. The Master perk so you can affect Undead and Constructs with Calm etc would be required for a lot of high end barrows etc.

The "Trick and Decoy" defence I think is the only practical approach - create illusions of other creatures which are immune to damage but do no damage (or only one point of damage) and so cannot be killed but keep them busy until the spell ends while you flee.

I don't suppose an Illusion of Alduin appearing and commanding the dragons to leave? That would be a minimum Master level spell and even them probably could not work within the game lore.

I always found it interesting that in other game systems, Illusionists had high Dexterity/Agility (so they were more difficult to touch in melee) and used spells that affected the mind, while Necromancers had high Wisdom/Willpower (so had a bonus against Mind-Affecting spells) and used spells that often required a touch.

They really are Opposed Schools.

~.~

an illusion spell that makes the illusion so real to the victim it damages them, be it mentally or manifesting from the characters very Magicka.

make sense?

Mind -> magicka -> inflicts damage to victim.

Maybe something like "Phantom Fire" from DCUO? You don't actually light them on fire, you must make them think they're on fire and the illusion is so real that it causes damage. Maybe add a ghostly flame effect to them.

I was thinking about the sunlight one since illusion is meant to be manipulation of light and sound as well but I wasn't sure if people would see that as just a restoration spell. My idea would be that it's a fire and stick to the wall spell that causes area of effect sun light damage. Which in turn will make it possible to get the dragonstone from Bleak Falls Barrow. I really don't like that a fear spell can effect Dwarven machines just because you have the perk, it doesn't make much sense imo.

I don't quite understand what you mean. If it's what I'm thinking you're trying to say then I could just move all the fire ball spells to illusion and say they're so realistic that it damages them.

As I stated earlier, I don't want to change the illusionist play style. It's not really that fun for an illusionist to go around shooting phatom fire at enemies as if they were a destruction mage.

The last two posts gave me an idea. What if you had a spell that teaches the npc a spell that inflicts self damage? Like the heal spell except it lights itself on fire and thinks it's a healing spell. The only problem is that a lot of undead won't use the spell because they're programmed not to use magic.

As for the dragon problem I think I've come up with something but I'm not sure if it's over powered. Illusion spells that cause the dragon to hear words they would hate to hear without saying a word. One of the spells would be the land on the ground spell.

I'm not sure where to go from there, perhaps someone could expand on my idea.

I don't think it will work with Magelight. I had to use Candlelight as a base. You also have to be careful about having it affect NPCs as they can go hostile even if they do not burn it marked as detrimental. It is Alteration, not Restoration, as it only burns and does not Turn or cause Fear.

The first version did not have LOS, so it would burn Draugr in sarcophagi as well as those behind walls and trees etc. Here's a poor video of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO--g8O1XqM

So I changed it so the light needed to actually land on them without passing through any intervening objects or characters. And I changed the name to Sunlight. Here's another rough video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHGtpRsLAEA

Sunray has been a Druid spell since AD&D First edition. They cannot Turn Undead and have very few powers against them except those found in Nature. I tested it for balance against Bane of Undead. I wasn't totally happy with the visual effects, but at least it worked

As for the other ideas for damage, as mentioned before, you would be stuck with Shadow Magick and Demishadow Magick versions of Destruction, which would do 40% and 60% of the Damage of Adept and Expert spells, and Shadow Monsters, Demishadow Monsters and Shades versions of Conjuration, where the summons have 20%, 40% and 60% of damage, hp, armour etc of Apprentice, Adept and Expert Conjurations. They do partially real damage and have a long history as illusionist spells, so they are legitimate.

Or the Colour Spray and Chromatic spells.

~.~

Those are pretty good actually! I think that fits well since you're manipulating light which is one of the things that allow you to turn invisible.

What about this:

That would be a master spell, at least, I'd say. And Dragons do tend to be very resistant to things like illusions and Mind Control. That's the point of the Dragon Rend shout.

How about an Illusion of a Dragon that takes the heat off you? Don't cast it underground, though!

Cheers!

The only thing is that Illusion cannot create it's own light source, only manipulate photons etc to create images. The debate over whether Invisibility is really an Illusion or an Alteration has raged for decades, but I prefer it to be an Illusion.

It was my first mod as I was playing a Nordic Rune Witch (Druid) and didn't perk Restoration at all. She was my first character and lasted 450 hours and 64 levels before patch 1.9 screwed it up. It took a while to get the spells to work properly, again with inspiration from AD&D.

Moonlight - longer lasting Magelight

Starlight - lights up every creature/NPC in the area with a little Candlelight spell

Sunlight - a light appears above the caster and burns any Undead in the area.

I suppose it could be argued these are Conjuration as they summon real light...

I would also recommend Magelight Multi-cast http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/12845/

You can cast as many lights as you like as long as you have the magicka.

~.~

Why a master spell? You can get dragon rend at level 1 if you never level up, or if you only do the MQ you can probably get it by level 15.

Why is that? You could say the spell has manipulated photons to create an image of a light source. It's paralyze that should never have been in illusion. Light has always been in illusion until Skyrim though for the reasons I gave before. Not that you couldn't create light from a few other spell schools but that doesn't mean that illusion can't just because alteration can.

I still need more ideas! Refer to the first post.

Because it is a spell. The shout is an innate ability only the Dragonborn has, it's not a magical spell. If any old Wizard could cast a spell to bring down a dragon, they'd never have needed the Dragonborn, the Blades or any of the rest.

Illusory light can produce an image of a light source, as you say, but it could not illuminate an area and could not harm Vampires, Wraiths, Shadows etc. It would not let you see in a dark room or read a book (unless the book was part of the illusion), but it could create an illusion of a torch on a wall and a solid floor covering a 20 ft deep spiked pit trap and trick you into thinking a corridor was safe.

Paralysis can be an illusion if it is a phantasmal effect as it originally was. It's all in the mind, whereas image illusions are like 3D holograms and not in the mind, everyone can see them. Then it was an Alteration. I think in DnD3 it's a Necromancy spell.

But Light was only an illusion spell in Daggerfall because the school had bugger all spells, and three of them were basically the same - Chameleon, Shadowform and Invisibility.

~.~