Images of Lorkhan

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:50 am

Was Lorkhan bound on an island with birds ripping out his body parts and rescued by a demi-god? My point is that one similarity does not mean anything. There are countless similarities between one concept and any others. There is no 1-1 comparison. Now if we were defining how man views Lorkhan in TES then Prometheus may be one of the more apt comparisons with a similar concept in one aspect but for different reasons. They both are viewed as saviors of mankind and had to trick the "higher" beings to do it. After that well...similarities kind of end imo. Prometheus is not really the soul of a soul of one of the original sources of creation.

I think the idea is, certain real mythological archetypes give us new ways of understanding the TES deities. The point is quite the opposite of tying a TES deity down to one interpretation, the idea is to open the character up to new spectrums of understanding. Just like in ancient times how a new piece of tragedy or poetry might paint a God in a whole new way, using it as a cipher to illuminate a fresh topic, we can use those same Gods to wonder at just how far the rabbit-whole goes in The Elder Scrolls.
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Kerri Lee
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 4:39 am

Which Odin are we talking about here? They don't get any more warlike than old Wodan. Specifically, he is the intelligent, almost tricksterish leader who wins through intellect. Doesn't Shor son of Shor even have him going to the underworld to find out more about himself? I'm struggling to see a single Shor/Thor anologue other than the hammer (and the name..). That mournful, poetic element that Shor and Odin share is too much to ignore. IMO, Odin might be the most interesting character in all religion, and is the clear inspiration for Lorkhan/Shezarr/Shor.
Shor is the god of mankind, just as Thor is. Odin is disconnected from man and worshiped because of his power rather than out of love, so he's called the Terrible One. And Odin opts for shadowy, deceitful warfare rather than upfront combat, which is another reason Shor is like Thor. When I think of Odin I think of an old man traveling in disguise and puppeteering, wearing a wide-brimmed hat to cover his missing eye. Thor only disguised himself once, and it was at the behest of Heimdallr. Furthermore Thor hated it so much that he eventually dropped the act and went along with hammering. Shor is the same. Instead of sneaking around or getting other people to fight for him, he'd rather run in and kill.
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Inol Wakhid
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 9:19 pm

Was Lorkhan bound on an island with birds ripping out his body parts and rescued by a demi-god? My point is that one similarity does not mean anything.
Don't fret none. The fact that people have to point to Loki, Odin, Osiris and Prometheus to explain Lorkhan proves your point by itself. That's a lot of imperfect archetypes to draw on.
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Ysabelle
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 12:50 pm

All the depictions of Lorkhan do not address Masser and Secunda

I cannot mentally picture were the two moons fit in his corpus.

Is Masser his stomach and Secunda his head?

How can a planet be the body of an Aedra?
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Mylizards Dot com
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 12:15 pm

All the depictions of Lorkhan do not address Masser and Secunda

I cannot mentally picture were the two moons fit in his corpus.

Is Masser his stomach and Secunda his head?

How can a planet be the body of an Aedra?
How could Meridia be a star and a color?
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Ally Chimienti
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 11:25 pm

All the depictions of Lorkhan do not address Masser and Secunda

I cannot mentally picture were the two moons fit in his corpus.

Is Masser his stomach and Secunda his head?

How can a planet be the body of an Aedra?
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/general-information-history-and-depictions-planetsis how.
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lucy chadwick
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 3:51 pm

Shor is the god of mankind, just as Thor is. Odin is disconnected from man and worshiped because of his power rather than out of love, so he's called the Terrible One... Thor only disguised himself once, and it was at the behest of Heimdallr. Furthermore Thor hated it so much that he eventually dropped the act and went along with hammering. Shor is the same. Instead of sneaking around or getting other people to fight for him, he'd rather run in and kill.

Lorkhan is a reflection of what his creators consider to be an ideal being, but in an utterly unexpected, unconventional way which, with his emphasis on Chaos/Change/Revolution, makes a specific attempt to divorce itself from traditional morality. He is a trickster/plotter when he needs to be (one might even argue a political leader or reformer), a thief when he needs to be, and a war-leader/revolutionary when needed. He's Odin and he's Thor, plus Jesus, plus Trotsky... and Nietzsche's Ubermensch as well, all rolled into one mythic figurehead. The diversity of his character is why he's so awesome. Shor, the more Thor-ish aspect, is just a reflection of the role Lorkhan had to assume at the time that men had the most hands on contact with them/the Nords mythopoeic view taking effect on his guise.

"When I think of Odin I think of an old man traveling in disguise and puppeteering, wearing a wide-brimmed hat to cover his missing eye."

Even though this might not be the appearance that some prefer, it sounds about right; in equal measure to the proposal that Shezarr is Thor. It depends on what he needs to be to move things toward a new, fresh direction.
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Tanya Parra
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 9:19 pm

In the end it's a dead end to say that Lorkhan/Shezarr/Shor are carbon copies of Norse gods. Nearly every one of the Aesir would fit the bill in some way if you think about it hard enough.

*edit

And a handful of the Vanir too.
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Brooks Hardison
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 1:57 pm

Lorkhan is certainly not a carbon copy of any Norse god, my point was merely that by connecting Shor to Thor, a lot of what makes him such a fascinating character is lost, and you are drawn in the wrong direction. Something about Wodan's age, his intelligence and that mournful tragedy in him, just screams Doom Drum. Thor seems happier with a Freyr or a Balder by his side, (Stuhn and Tsun) Wodan is the man at the top, with all the weight of the world on his shoulders, leading his people into terrible battle. We don't actually have that much lore on the Shor aspect himself, but what we do have paints him in a more Odiny role if you ask me. Obviously this only partially fits a part of Shor, but seeing him through an Odin lens helps capture a lot of what makes that figure special. Essentially, both Lorkhan and Odin are God-kings built around deciet. The Shezzarr aspect is probably a lot closer to Balder or Thor though, of course. He's a complicated beast, that Lorkhan, isn't he?
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Cagla Cali
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 3:53 am

Lorkhan has been so pivotal to the TES cosmos that I cannot fathom why the devs refuse to show him.

Are they lacking ideas? I had hoped for a sighting in Sovengard, but only got the lame excuse about his bright mien


I think the devs do not know themselves

There has been plenty of bickering in this thread alone over what Lorkhan/Shezzar/Shor looks like. Imagine how much [censored]ing there would be if bethesda did give him an official appearance.

http://lady-nerevar.deviantart.com/art/Day-10-Shor-267254446 is one of my favourites, although Shor is probably the aspect it fits least of the three.

http://badhead-gadroon.deviantart.com/art/Early-Lorkhan-From-2006-137533475 is far better than his later one in my opinion and I think fits a general merish aspect rather well.

http://lordshadowblade.deviantart.com/art/St-Michael-defeats-Lucifer-57223688* Has always looked liked Shezzar vs Doom-Drum to me and is a great work of art.

http://aerion-the-faithful.deviantart.com/art/FEROX-121567166 Depicting Leman Russ of 40K seems the closest fit to Shor I've come across (albeit IN SPACE!) mainly because to me Shor will always have badass red locks.

*EDIT: Come to think of it that picture works for a lot of things. Trinimac slaying Lorkhan, Pelinal defeating Umaril...
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Theodore Walling
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 7:47 pm

My vision of pre-death Lorkhan is http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100215004517/bioshock/images/thumb/c/c4/Fontaine_First_Form.png/362px-Fontaine_First_Form.png from Bioshock or just that Hellenistic idea of human perfection: sculpted and bronze-like.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Thor.jpg, 'nuff said.

And http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_O0ch3ABb3L4/TOzuVAzMS7I/AAAAAAAACgk/PTvW37i-Z7c/s1600/Jose%2BBenlliure%2BGi%2Bl-%2Bla%2Bbarca%2Bde%2BCaronte%2B1919.jpg is exactly how I imagine Ysmir.

*edit*

Basically the http://www.sangam.org/taraki/articles/2006/images/Dali_New_Child_000.jpg is one of age. He starts out in a sort of Platonic form, like the paragon and perfect man, statuesque. When he arrives on Nirn he is immortal but doomed, and thus he becomes the likeness of the first men. After losing his divine spark he becomes old, haggard, ashen and physically weak and immaterial but held together and retentive of power seemingly solely because of hatred.

A great character.
0
The idea of idealized human proportions comes much, much earlier than the Hellenistic. Kanon (or canon, as most know it in English) came from a 5th century Classical Greek sculptor Praxiteles, who quantified the ideal human proportions (it was later adapted upon by Skopas and other 4th century sculptors).
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Sarah Kim
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 2:56 pm

A real image of Lorkhan would be impossible.

Shor on the other hand...

/rifles through some paper.
It looks to me like we just got an interesting hint there about the natures of Lorkhan and Shor: that there's more to it than just two names for the same entity.
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+++CAZZY
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 4:43 pm

It looks to me like we just got an interesting hint there about the natures of Lorkhan and Shor: that there's more to it than just two names for the same entity.

Shor is to Lorkhan as Alduin is to Akatosh? They are both their own father, regardless.
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Neil
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:59 am



Shor is to Lorkhan as Alduin is to Akatosh? They are both their own father, regardless.
Possibly.

I've been seeing some dicussion lately of the different cultures' pantheons, which imply that the different names for deities that are presumed to be identical with one divine in the Cyrodiilic pantheon, are somehow distinct entities.

Partly under the influence of a science fiction novel I read recently, I've been thinking that the nature of language is part of the story. That is, in the language of dragons, in which there is no distinction between debating and fighting, there is little or no distinction between signifier and signified. Mortal languages are subgradient to the language of dragons. Perhaps both are subgradient to Ehlnofex.

Getting back to the divines, perhaps by referring to the same being by two names, and telling somewhat different stories about that being under each name, would create a fracture in the identity of that being. And I think that might mean that the Imperial Cult is more important than we realized. And remember Tiber Septim's Temple of the One?

What happens if the Earthbones crack?
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Ben sutton
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 5:48 pm

It looks to me like we just got an interesting hint there about the natures of Lorkhan and Shor: that there's more to it than just two names for the same entity.

Is Shor the firstborn of Lorkhan then?
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Stefanny Cardona
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 7:39 pm

Is Shor the firstborn of Lorkhan then?
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1160383-shor-son-of-shor/

You know, reading that again now, I feel a little silly for not seeing Alduin's portrayal in Skyrim coming. The anology is much better than I intended. All along I've been in a huff that the Alduin we were given didn't fit the Auri-El in my head, but that's the point, it's all in there. Ald son of Ald. Generations, repeating the same story, again and again (or even just once, in a thousand different styles, does it matter?).
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Taylah Haines
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:09 pm

Isn't Shor son of Shor where Nordic gods having "Totem forms" comes from?

Also, yes, it's a mistake to only compare Shor to Norse gods. Ancient rituals about Sovngarde appear to have Egyptian influence, for example.
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jaideep singh
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 7:17 pm

It has the characteristic hole where Lorkhan's heart could be, it has the distinctive shape of Nirn's moons, it's not a form we would consider conventional or believable....maybe this is Lorkhan?
Spoiler
http://static-imgs-acf.hereisthecity.com/20110721////me_631.jpg
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Juan Cerda
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 12:23 pm

Yeah. Vikings werent mummified, they were sent out on the water and burned. This embalming crap comes from Egypt
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Elea Rossi
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 11:27 pm

I am not sure how Shor is different from Lorkhan...

They should be the same deity I thought
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Sheila Esmailka
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 3:09 am

A real image of Lorkhan would be impossible.

Shor on the other hand...

/rifles through some paper.
*hyperventilates with paper bag*
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Marion Geneste
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 2:36 pm

Yeah. Vikings werent mummified, they were sent out on the water and burned. This embalming crap comes from Egypt

True. Draugr is Old Danish or Swedish for "undead" I believe. So the Draugr should really be zombies, but I do like the way they were done in Skyrim.
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Lori Joe
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:55 am

I am not sure how Shor is different from Lorkhan...

They should be the same deity I thought

Basically:

Lorkhan - Satan

Shor - Odin

Shezarr - Mercury

Sep - Anansi

Sheor - L'Ankou
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Shaylee Shaw
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 9:32 pm

I always imagined him a butch, Odin-like figure, roughly the size of a Skyrim giant and clad in fur armor with a raven on his shoulder. That's just me though. Never mind, I just found out that he is not the same as Shor.
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Leonie Connor
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 4:20 am

Yeah. Vikings werent mummified, they were sent out on the water and burned. This embalming crap comes from Egypt

I thought the ideal death for a viking was in the heat of battle and no proper burial was needed. Although if they did cremate them, I'm sure they used the method you just described.
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Nathan Hunter
 
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