I think you have immersion and realism mixed up.

Definitions of immersion on the Web:


* Immersion is the state of consciousness where an immersant's awareness of physical self is diminished or lost by being surrounded in an engrossing total environment; often artificial. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_(virtual_reality)

Well I hate to nitpick the joke here... but you wouldn't die from not eating three meals a day. Otherwise I'd be dead many days of the week. Also, one arrow or sword strike won't absolutely kill you. It would depend on where it hits. Oh, and nobody really sleeps for 8 hours a day. Also, if paying taxes yearly in game is actually every 5 minutes in real life then the point about jail time directly contradicts that idea.

But yeah, other than that...

These two.
/thread

Yeah, I agree with alot of this. All the various silly calls for "immersion" that I've seen on various forums for various games have given me an instinctive negative reaction to the word, just like most people have for that business triple-speak that's mocked in Dilbert alot ("leverage the shareholder value blah blah blah"). And what's worse is that it's such a vague word and many of the people throwing it around mean different things by it.


....and on the topic of "forget you're playing a game". Why would I want to do that? I chose to buy a game and play a game. Why wouldn't I want to know I was playing the game I set out to play? (Seems close to not being able to tell fantasy from reality/etc, kind of. I'm not sure I really want people to get that drawn into games.)


Edit


That doesn't sound like something I'd want, really. "Awareness of physical self is diminished or lost"? Ick.

Of course, it also sounds like something you're not going to get without cyber-tech-like mental diving, or sensory tanks. As long as you're looking at a screen and manipulating a mouse/keyboard/whatever, any real level of "immersion" is probably impossible.

I think i am missing the point of this thread. Is it supposed to be a joke thread or what?

FAIL.

I'm going to be a total asshat and quote myself here.


I'm all for the game being "immersive" but when people throw the word around to refer to anything and everything they'd like in the game it really [censored] me off.

does anyone really ask for life simulation anyway? I'm not sure I've seen the nuttiest nutjob say that he wants to have to eat, drink, sleep, work like real life for the sake of immersion. However I'm going to go ahead and sound like a nutjob saying that all of those things can be implemented into a game as a gameplay mechanic such that they do actually enhance the experience. I think the new fallouts did this a bit and in my opinion it was fun. regardless of your opinion of how it worked its worth noting that it wasn't all that realistic but it was fun and somewhat immersive nonetheless. When you think about it The Sims was just a life simulation, but really it wasn't, it was a game that made mechanics involving mundane everyday life activities, and alot/ most people feel like that was a great and innovative game.

Nords aren't Vikings. Did the Vikings slow time with their voices? No. Did they fight giants, dragons, and ice wraiths? No. Did they live in Skyrim? No. That's like saying "OH MY GOD I'm so pissy because the Romans didn't have a city build around an aincient spire! And why don't the Orcs have Japanese accents?"

Not to throw a monkey wrench into your works, but one can argue the logic of our own reality and that the way our own world works is not entirely understandable nor possibly logical by our mere human standards at times. Thus, we are looking at both of these worlds through our human minds at the moment. A mind which is flawed and, unfortunately, not all-knowing. This isn't really relevant to your discussion but I found your debate so intriguing that I had to intercede and toss in my own two cents. It's great that such a game can spawn such intellectually fueled debates, after all.

Carry on.

I think the game needs a LOT more immersion. "Immersion" is defined as the placing of a substance beneath the surface of a liquid. That means the game should take place entirely under water. How long can you hold your breath? Oh, you're an Argonian? Never mind.

For the taxes, can I deduct buying a new sword as a business expense?
I tried to make more clever tax filing related jokes but failed. Someone clever back me up.

i bet the OP likes the cheat......er i mean the map fast travel, you know he uses it when he is in danger, simply get far enough away from the fight and POOF! your safe and sound. he probably also liked that you could cast spells while having a weapon and a shield equipped. he also liked the virtually instant mana regen and no failure in spellcasting. im also willing to bet that he liked the fact that his character could outrun just about anything including wildlife (makes avoiding any difficult fights super easy). joining and becoming the master of all the guilds in a matter of ingame weeks sounds right up his alley. i wonder if he wants even fewer armor pieces in the next game........i mean seriously who has time to mess around with 5 entire seperate pieces of armor lets make it just one piece. better yet make it auto equipe so you dont have to mess around with menus.

Hey...
I like that idea.

Holy Hyperbole, Batman!


-----

And.... I guess you're one of those silly people who thinks that features the developers deliberately put in the game (like "saving", or "fast travel", or "mods") is somehow cheating, right?


I'll never understand that point of view.

Immersion definitely is an overused "buzz word" around these forums that folks use as an attack on any one particular thing they don't like. Whether it really has anything to do with immersion or not. OP made me laugh though, well done. :thumbsup:

Meanwhile at the Hall of Doom

Damn it Lex Luthor, your plan failed again! The Dragonborn is just to smart for you! The Super Friends are to strong!

Dont' worry, I have a full proof plan this time! We'll get the nord on tax evation! It worked to get Al Capone, and it'll work to get the Dragonborn too!

.....

I tried man, I really did.

I think the OP has something! And I think its fair to raise it as an issue and good to do it in a light hearted way, doesn't warrant people attacking him and make suggestions about what he is like. People do use the word 'immersion' so much on this forum and they use it as a get out for not thinking through reason they wants things, 'it would really add to immersion!' or to attack others ideas 'No way that would like totally like ruin my immersion!'. People just throw the word around, I saw in another thread someone complaining that the change of the word 'Encumbrance' was going to really mess with the immersion!! I know it is used correctly sometimes just a lot of the time it is really miss used.

^ This was hilarious like OP too... :rofl: Well done...

EXACTLY !!!! In my native language, "immersion" is "imers?o" and comes from the latin word "immersione" (Most of the Portuguese language comes from latin too, BTW, but we have many other words with other origins)... "Imers?o" is used to define a long and somehow more "relaxing" bath that having just a shower, like in "Banho de imers?o" which means "immersion bath"...

Said that, i want to see in TES V a REALISTIC CIVIL WAR between two factions. WHY? TO FEEL A BETTER IMMERSION IN HISTORY AND LORE OF THE ELDER SCROLLS.

I don't want to see in Bethesda Softworks Forums a civil war because the word "immersion" be applied in more ways other than the true sense of the word. It's silly because we want all the same: playing the best game ever done whether we have a need of food in-game or not.

?Why can't we work out our differences? Why can't we work things out? Little people, why can't we all just get along?...? :tops: Ups, nevermind... :slap:

Gaming, to me, is aaaallllll about immersion and is a big part of how I decide what I will play.

I don't have a problem with a thread that pokes fun at immersion but think it should stay separated from a thread that seriously examines immersion.

Immersion often gets thrown by those that want more difficulty, such as hardcoe.
Those that want more stuff to do or keep track of such as "sigh" usable bathrooms, that are a part of real life in real life.
Those that have a want to make even combat as believable as possible, such as skills for everything, every style included and many other gameplay variables
Lastly it's used by those that seek to get away from their normal lives with fantasy creations and interactive stories / dialogue.

I'm in the last group, not dying to a single hit, toilets or keeping track of how my character holds a sword is neither an isue for me.
Plot holes, missed opportunities, bad dialogue, unbelievable McGuffins, forced situations and linear one path quests are.

This is why I try to avoid the phrase immersion, and use Roleplay instead, anything else is rules or graphics.



My M'aiq quote on another thread was "M'aiq thinks immersion is for bathing."

Wow. OP failed hard at being able to distinguish between immersion features and excessive realism features.

Immersion isn't about applying the rules and logic of Earth to a game world, it's about letting the player feel as if they are in this other world with different rules and logic.

The two only overlap if the game world is meant to be set in the 'real world' or if you have absolutely no imagination and thus can't possibly imagine a world different than your own.

I guess people define words differntly. I personally think there's a difference between immersion and role play. I'm not a role player to the degree that I need flushing toilets, etc. but role play to feel like I'm that character in that game world. That's why I play TES games in first person, that's why I'd like to be knocked back or fall to the grown if a serious hit caught me off guard.

I guess there's a fine line between immersion and role play like you describe, but again that's just my interpretation of the words.

True it's nice to see all the ways people view it.
I thank you for posting yours cheers.

Immersion is not the same as Realism. Realism can add to Immersion, but it must not be assumed that more Realism results in more Immersion.

I used a mod in Oblivion that made you lose Fatigue if you ran. That is, the normal mode of transportation caused you to lose Fatigue. Getting tired from running is certainly realistic, but managing my fatigue (so that I didn't fall down in the middle of the road) took me completely out of the game. In this case, Realism broke Immersion.

Immersion: always good.
Realism: sometimes good, sometimes bad.

There, I said it. Realism can be bad. hmy:

Not always, to much immersion will cause your skin somehow "shrink". Believe me...