Continue the discussion.

So which RP is being done then?

Taneth Siege.

I actually have an idea for a resolution for the siege but I'm fairly certain nobody will agree to it, because it'd require ignoring certain things on both sides. And because it'd be hinged upon multiple character deaths, (mine included).

Voice it. Though I don't know about coming right back, it never hurts to hear other peoples ideas.

It's basically Storyteller's depiction of how things end up, except the Knights and Confederation are more proactive instead of sitting where they are to get killed. For example, calling reinforcements from Rihad and Roseguard to help surround and overwhelm Stros' army during the weeks that it'll take for Haroun to mobilize his armies to break past the Irk Bridge. Half of Commander Vario's knights will be sent to Terentius, in hopes that Haroun will prioritize attacking them instead of the Confederation (this was actually an idea I've had before we decided while the RP was going on). It doesn't work.

The siege of Taneth lasts quite a while, and at some point Battlespire issues new orders: because peace cannot be reached, they must eliminate the invasion leaders Haroun and Bomilkar, in hopes it will stop the invasion (as well as destabilize the Yokudan Empire, thus making it a more tempting target for the Aldmeri Dominion to lessen the threat to Cyrodiil). One of the assassinations succeeds, but the other fails, thus implicating Battlespire. The Yokudans become even more determined to break into the city and they manage to breach the walls. The Knights hold the line so Lucretia's mercs and political refugees can escape. Commander Vario and everyone remaining in his command is killed, and Commander Terentius takes the rest of the Knights, mercs, and refugees and leaves through the mountains, marching through neutral territory before entering County Chorrol. Without them, the remaining armies of Roseguard and Rihad are crushed without nearly as much difficulty.

After conquering Skaven, the rift between Crowns and Forbears, mixed with the loss of either Haroun or Bomilkar, results in infighting across the Empire. The remaining leaders manage to hold the Empire and its new holdings together, but it takes all of the Empire's might to do so, thus ruining any prospects of expanding its borders further any time soon.

The Knights return to their Cyrodiilic chapters, Battlespire's actions are brought to the Elder Council's attention (both taking Cyrodiil's diplomatic matters into their own hands and then ruining it by carrying out assassinations), although the rulers of Cyrodiil are either unwilling or unable to punish them for it. The battlemage aristocracy secretly commends Battlespire for defying an ineffectual government to get results, while the non-magical nobility view them (probably correctly) as potentially dangerous usurpers.

Commander Vario returns as a sanctified spirit in the Priory Undercroft, furious at both the Yokudans' butchery and the numerous problems plaguing the Order (the latter of which he was made aware of post-mortem). He is allowed back in the Order and dedicates himself to scouring the Order of corruption (starting with the Ordo Hereticus).

Anything else would be as Story said.

And as I said, I'm well aware it will not be accepted.

It sounds nice and doable...but IMHO it kind of bugs me not to end it on our terms RPing through it. Sentinel was great but I always wished we could have wrote the last battle.

Losing Bomilkar or Haroun is simply not an option, at least not for me since I've already sacraficed one of my favorite characters, and Story and I have taken numerous precautions to prevent the complete and total diseray of the Yokudan Empire in the case of assassination, which is only percievable since we've had quite awhile to think this out. Personally, I think had an assasination actually gotten through, all it would do is serve to unify the Raga, especially after the death of Roxanna. Your scenario also doesn't take into account the messures we've already put in place via Operation: Scarab. I don't object because its not plausable or doable, but because it doesn't take into account any of the things already put into the Yokudan Empire.

If were to auto-resolve this, I think it best that we work together and create a mock scenario where our plans are pitted against each other, which is only fair in my eyes.

Oh I know! RP's going up this weekend and whoever doesn't post loses their character...

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lltzgnHi5F1qzib3wo1_400.jpg

From my perspective, however, losing the Confederation is simply not an option. I similarly don't want to consign thousands to unjust deaths just because some half-mad king and his self-entitled brother-in-law want to avenge someone whom the Rihad Confederation didn't actually kill. Especially if the perpetrators of the conflict (and the horrific murders that you plan to have follow) are guaranteed to get away scot-free.

And that aside, I also ignored many of the defensive factors that have been planned.

Might as well be an option, I don't mind dieing in RP, I've done it before, but having my character auto-reigned to some fate out of my control is what I'm not on board for. If Bomilkar were to die, it should be because he was bested in one on one combat via RP, not by some assassin, if you get what I mean. Similarly, I wouldn't expect you to just resign your character to death unless you agreed and planned for it so. Im not so sure what your looking for in terms of justice for the Domination. Nations in civil wars often commit terrible atrocities in whatever name their fighting in, do you expect the other nations of Tamriel to jump in just because the Raga are killing each other? Did the other races jump when during the first two sacks of Orsinium? were the attackers brought to some kind of justice? no, not at all. It was made all to clear from the get go that the Knights aren't here to protect the Confederation, their there for money, power and land. Tamriel has very few instances where the people decide to ban together to stop something that doesn't involve each and every one of them. As far a Haroun is concerned, its a civil war. Bomilkar does have a legitimate right to the Confederation, if anything is to be seen, its the Knights meddling in affairs thats not their to meddle in.

Some of the things you have planned seem to act as if were just going to rush in, head first throwing caution to the wind and whatnot, when as it is many of the things you have planned simply wouldn't work given our plan of attack. Its hard to really point them out without giving away or plans, as I'm sure you understand, but there's absolutely no reason for us to be in a rush to take Taneth. You seem to assume that the Stros Army will act alone, but forget that we have complete control over the seas and by proxy the rivers including both vital bridges that connect Taneth to the rest of the Confederation. Who's to say while your throwing your men at Taneth that Donovon doesn't decide to take his marines and sack an unoccupied Rihad. Too many factor are involved, and these predetermined events as one or the other acting without much tactical sense.

edit: Like I said, I'm a bull headed as a steer when it comes to my confidence in strategy. Whatever defense you have, I'll over come it in some fashion, what kind of General would Bomilkar be if he didn't consider every avenue for advancement and what kind of King would Haroun be if he threw away valuable men and resources when he has more than ample ways to use them to their full effectiveness.

If that's really the case, no one would enjoy reading about that than me. Honestly i'm prepped for it and will be active.

I'm beginning to regret having ever gotten involved in this RP. No offense, but you've just described everything that I feel is wrong with it.

First, while I like plot armor and it's probably benefited me more than anyone so far in the RP, it doesn't fit in with the gritty realism you seemed so obsessed with. In fact, I find it more depressing and more disturbing than one or the other.

Second, it now feels more like pro-Yokudan fanboyism than an actual RP or an actual story. It's basically a year-spanning shaggy dog story, an exercise in futility on one side and an exercise in wish fulfillment on the other. That people have been deciding how to resolve it in their favor before the RP began and had such elaborate plans only hurts it more.


It's not just the Timeline though. I'm beginning to think I'm simply not mean-spirited enough to succeed in the Timeline. I take no pleasure from wrecking someone else's pet faction or harming their characters, and in fact feel guilt in doing so. If you were to relent regarding assassination I would probably retract the idea.

Crimson my friend, please don't stress yourself out so much. You deal with the well being of the civilians and the characters acting as defender. Allow me to dabble in faction fanboyism and the wrecking of plans for it is something Tidus and I enjoy doing together.

You don't need to feel satisfaction at harming other people's characters, just at harming your own

Seriously though, I for one don't see the mean-spiritedness of the Timeline. I've been here for a while and yet I consider myself not that competitive a person who's just in it to shake the fluff stick now and again, although admittedly I all too often get too caught up in something or other to let it go (fnarf fnarf first pge). If it makes you feel at all better I wouldn't mind brutally murdering Baibars off and throwing the entire Alik'r into disarray, so long as it makes for a good story and isn't just 'trading blows' so that on a spreadsheet somewhere the Yokudans and the Knights come up as even.

Also I resent these accusations that the Ordo is corrupt, it's just Lysandra giving them a bad name Offing her would be as much a score in the Knights' favour as the death of any of my Yokudan characters.

Does no one remember the camel incident?



This edit really stood out for me. This I believe is where the Timeline is headed, especially a siege RP like the one in planning now. The bolded part is the general competitiveness that has gone past what I use to read in SoS. The underlined part is I think the bigger underlying (get it?) problem. If this siege RP gets going, its going to boil down to two internet armchair generals throwing what each believes to be a "well thought out flawless plan" at each other. The problem lies in that both plans can't be flawless because someone has to "lose" (philosophizing) and thats where I see the problems coming. When internet nerds such as ourselves think we are great warrior-generals, when really on Story can be named as such, thats when I think things get mean-spirited

I hope your not suggesting that I'm mean spirited Crimson. That kinda gets irksome after all I've done to make things as fair as possible for you and your side. I've never directed a mean word towards you, nor your ideas, and to suggest so is a bit offencive given a number of things we've discussed on and off the Timeline thread. The only mean spirited things that have surfaced have been between IB and I, which for the most part have been issues of misunderstanding of tones and my growing low tolerance for bull over the years, yet we're able to work things out for the most part.

There's definitely an air of favoritism, but what can you expect when you've molded the side your on since the very beginning? Competition is simply required, and so far I've had no issue with losing as long as you beat me. The issue so far has been, however, that you've not yet done it and it makes no sense us to agree to such an unfavorable result that includes the death of one of our two major character, one being the Hoonding, just because its makes an interesting story. I can't help but feel your making things out to be far worse than they are. Are we not supposed to plan for victory? are we not to design our military operations and use what victories we've achieved to insure the defeat of our enemies? I'd like you to point where either Story or I have been mean spirited towards you or your faction, because I don't think you'll find it from either of us.

Would you like to just assume that our characters would do something uncharacteristic of them? Like I said, we came into this knowing we would win, because we have other choice. No country goes to war thinking they will lose, though it doesn't mean they won't, but you can't expect us to be pessimistic about it nor sympathetic to a faction that wouldn't negotiate in the first place. Now as for assassination, if you can kill Bomilkar through it via RP, then so be it, but you simply will not kill him just cause.


I don't see it as any more competitive than SoS. Actually, heh, SoS was far less polite and understanding. Duval and I have shared some words before over battles and character death that were quite heated, the only difference is it was done via PM. Now as I've said, my plans are not flawless and I don't see them as such, but I have faith in my ability to overcome weather you think I'm just an arm chair nerd who thinks he's the next Hannibal. I have faith in myself, more than any predefined plan, and if anyone expects me to doubt myself then you simply don't know me.

edit: I guess all and all, how do you want me to react regarding the campaign? What is it that will make you happy? I'm fine with a bloody victory that stunts Yokudan growth for a time, but I'm not OK with a either Bomilkar or Haroun dieing 'just because'.

edit 2: I hope none of that sounded confrontational or anything, lack of sleep and stress at work has really dulled me lately.

Fair enough. I'm just concerned that this siege will finally break the Timeline because let's face it, its seen more cohesive days. Even QW wasn't this bad.

I envy your confidence

Personally, I see little point in doing it if we don't all want to. It would be a lie to say we're at our peak, and the only way it'll break is if one of us can't accept defeat. I've no issue with defeat as long as its deserved and justified via superior strategy and application.

Blade, I used to have major confidence issues, I've done alot of work to change that.

If that were true, this thread would be literally on fire.

I'm holding you to that.

I'll go with whatever you guys want to do. I'm not terribly concerned with who wins; I really like both sides and the people who play them. When this thing goes up, you can expect me to participate.

Epic win Immortal (the picture). Crimson, bro, it's really not that bad... Don't overdo it mate. Honestly, it isn't as terrible as you think it is. Tidus makes a lot of good points: the Stros army wouldn't just go out by itself and do its own thing without any type of support, and the knights in Rihad sure as hell wouldn't go move to counter that.

While I don't think the discussions should get personal, Tidus makes a good point in the fact that nations do go to war thinking they will win. What I expect to see is some awesome writing. While the competitive aspect is there, it needs to be much more than some stupid total war game. There needs to be writing involved and it needs to be episodic. If people just write down soldier movements, whoever wins be damned, then this thing is going to absolutely svck complete balls. Immortal, Tidus and I can work out the behind the scenes details. It'll be straight.

I'm kind of not seeing the point of involving Rihad and Roseguard into this if the Siege is about Taneth. I think those two settlements will just distract from the over all focus of the RP. Instead of writing about the siege, we'd end up getting involved in side conflicts such as that one.

Hey how would you guys feel if we transplanted all this stuff over to Rihad and did the siege there? We'll say Taneth and Roseguard get bypassed/ignored and we just do the Siege at Rihad. We already have a nice map for it and the geographic variation is much more interesting IMO.

I'm a bit more calmed down so I'll give a response. I didn't mean to infer anyone was particularly mean-spirited. Perhaps I'm simply too soft. I suffer guilt trips for winning arguments, so actually setting someone back in an RP isn't always easy. Thwarting attackers is another matter, as I can more easily justify it, both in the in-RP and meta sense.

I never meant to suggest killing off characters "just because". If I suggested it, it's because there are some in the RP for whom assassination would be a reasonable strategic move. But I'll concede it because I'd really prefer to not win this argument, lest I suffer an aforementioned guilt trip. Plot armor for everyone. That's not to say I won't seek ways to go outside the boundaries of what plot armor typically allows.

That said, this RP has gone beyond the bounds of decent storytelling. Some of the people in the RP have made an excellent effort to try to make it that way but it's clear that it's taken a backseat to player desires. I am one who thinks that such is a bad thing, but I'm not going to condemn anyone for it. At the same time, don't expect me to treat it as such anymore. I'll try to spend less time whining and more time learning to pull out all the stops.

The Yokudans are throwing everything they have into attacking one city, why should the Confederation not similarly pool their forces? By the time Donovan learns that the war is back on and that Rihad's armies have slipped away, Rihad's forces could have gone to Roseguard and back. If not, I'm sure I'll be able to formulate a very nasty surprise for them.

Edit: Assuming he learns at all. There are ways to prevent intel from being delivered.