So, given that a lot of similar threads are being locked, and other than being "disorderly" I cannot see how they violate the forum rules, lets try and keep this on target and clean.

I'm curious about the general opinions here on this approach to content, but, to frame the discussion first:

1) This is not a discussion of game balance. There are no official racial bonuses announced yet, after all

2) I would also like to avoid a discussion of value/worth regarding the preorder/Imperial edition content. This is not about 'poor people unable to afford something' or 'overpaying for a small amount of content'

I would like this thread, if possible, to address the core of what's happening here: A core TES race, obviouslly fully ready for launch, being withheld and sold as premium content. These are not 'cosmetic' bonuses. This is the ability to play as an Imperial with "exclusive abilities." Again, this is withheld content, Day-1-DLC if you will, in a premium-priced and subscription based MMO.

***From back in August, an interview with ZOS general manager Matt Firor***

"The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play."

"Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being 'monetized' in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days," he added. "The fact that the word "monetized" exists points to the heart of the issue for us: We don't want the player to worry about which parts of the game to pay for - with our system, they get it all."

I had this weird dream last night and it was about eso, now they did not remove the faction lock but that add the option to be a hired mercenary to the other factions

Yup. Pretty normal

Trying to remember the last time I played a AAA game that DIDN'T have Day 1 DLC or desireable exclusive CE content. Been a while First time I encountered this, I kicked and screamed as loudly as others here. I got over it.

Not saying I approve; I don't, really. But I've had a lot of pleasure from other games that did this. Sometimes I paid the premium, sometimes I didn't, depending on what the content was. Either way, turned out the world didn't end. And those games, most of em, succeeded, so it's not hard to see why ZOS's marketing department thought it would be a cool idea.

Not saying I do, but a person who disagrees with a game's price tag and the developers implementation of content but still wants to play the game has the avenue of piracy so as to make sure they don't support the developers shenanigans.

With an MMO this [censored] is unheard of.

I have mostly the same sentiment here. I'm really excited for what all the developers and designers have put together here.

I'm bothered by Day 1 DLC in general, but I'm just particularly bothered in this case for three reasons:
1) It's a core TES race who's absence was lamented from the beginning

2) ZOS's representatives have publicly expressed a commitment to avoid monetization like this.

3) This is unprecedented amongst full-priced, subscription MMOs (correct me if I'm wrong)

The fact that they have a stated stance on monetizing MMOs makes their decision a bit odd, has there been a change of leadership on the project?

I'd be surprised if they didn't unlock the Imperials for all players somewhere down the line, like NW did with Drow (for those who missed it, NW offered Drow as a playable race for one of the pre-order packages and then unlocked them for everyone some months later).

The issue is still not worth all the keening and lamentation.

I think Zenimax knows this is going to fail, so they are going to try to get as much money as possible before they go to F2P or B2P like Guild Wars 2. To me this is unacceptable having a race be behind a paywall while we have a monthly subscription. Usually when you have a monthly subscription, you get pretty much get everything, that's not the case with this deal.

I would prefer if Imperials were unlocked for everyone, and same goes for the Imperial crafting styles. But, if this is the worst thing that ZOS chooses to monetize, we should all consider ourselves very, very lucky. In the grand scheme of things, this is all fluff stuff.

Cash shops are the new reality. I fully expect them to offer an Imperial race unlock at some point in their cash shop. Do I like it? Not particularly (that should come with the subscription.) But, we've seen the monetization and nickeling-and-diming of MMO features become so egregious in recent years that I'm fine with what little we've seen from ZOS, so long as this is as deep as the rabbit hole goes.

-Travail.

Honestly.... I personally think they could have taken this into a whole different direction.

I believe the race should be playable to all, but with an exception. You must reach level 50, and you MUST complete your factions storyline unlocking the imperial race. Maybe, and maybe at the very least, fight for an achievement of some sort in PvP, considering the Imperials own Cyrodill as of launch, and lore. It would definitely make people "Want" to go out of the way to par-take in such events, and make people want to reach max level, and complete the storyline (Main storyline, not side quests).

I'm not too bothered by the fact they decided to make such a decision, honestly, as a playable race ever since Morrowind, it should have been a playable race to begin with. Either or, I'm happy with their decision.

Besides, statistically speaking, people who "Feel Special" generally tend to stick around a game much longer than the average person/player. If you're giving someone something special like a race, aesthetics, etc, etc. It's going to make them feel like the money they spent was well worth it. Of course, being a member who purchased the Imperial edition, I actually do kind of feel a little "special" in some ways, it's like "Hey, I have an imperial and you don't!". Basically just minor bragging rights, and if people want to pay an extra $20 to do so, why not let them? In the end it only gives more money to Zenimax/Bethesda allowing them to further ESO expansion. In the end, I doubt having an extra race, or some stupid rings are going to do anything. It basically all comes down to a time commitment issue here. No matter what race, what bonuses/stats you obtain, if you're not able to play as long as someone else, they're ALWAYS going to be ahead.

I'm also not too sure what people think is so special about Imperials. Seriously, no armor is any different by any means either. They are all merely "Styles", basically "Choices" of an armor/weapon appearance you want in the end, and I'm willing to bet, that you'll either have to do raids, or become a wicked enchanter/smither in order to craft amazing gear. Seriously, all the people who are upset at this, are blowing it way out of proportion, and making this out to be something more than it is.

I don't like it at all. This isn't the sort of thing I'd expect from an Elder Scrolls title, nor anything published by Bethesda. Withholding part of a core feature of TES games - the races - in order to make a bit more money on some pre-orders is disgusting. I hate the idea of exclusive content. If the DLC was to be made available for purchase afterwards, and just included in the CE for free, fine. But this feels like holding part of the series hostage. It feels ... greedy.

That said, I've given into the wishes of the corporate suits and bought the CE. I guess I'm a bit hypocritical, but oh well. I don't really want to miss out on the opportunity to play as my favourite race, even though I disagree with the method I had to take to play as them.

I'd rather pay extra to have it from the beginning. I have absolutely zero interest in playing a throw-away character all the way to level 50, just so I can make the character I wanted all along. As far as I'm concerned, this type of thing is top 10 on my list of "Don'ts" when it comes to MMO design.

-Travail.

The philosophy expressed in these quotes is explicity against paywalls as you are exploring in-game--which can be frustrating and immersion-breaking.

I don't see pre-orders or CEs purchased before release and available on day 1 as being at odds with this. Though I understand why people would be upset at the thought of paying for content on top of a box purchase and sub-fee.

The thing is we dont know if as one post says that they are unlocked at 50 and such and we dont know if the imperial gear is just locked to imperials. All this fretting and what ifing doesnt do anyone any good but to get upset. B should make a statement explian EXACTLY what the race is, it its a stand alone race, if its just a title that lets you craft the imp gear or what it is because as of right now we dont know anything but a vague statement that we get to BE imperials.

this is my beliefs and actions as well. sadly

Honestly in 12 years of playing mmo's i have never seen anything like this as in the out cry of people because some something in a CE. I have been around playing mmo's since beta of eq (never cared for UO but did like some muds ) and like i said i have never seen people complain about an issue like this and for that matter such whining about having to pay for a sub.

I can see how they thought it was something really smart in theory and that it didn't pan out so well to a few fans on the internet, in the end it will have no real consequence to them. They should have saved everything and went the simple way by just announcing them as a payable race and thrown in some Imperial horse armor as the collectors edition special item instead of the Imperials as a race.

Personally I am getting the CE for the statue and the book mostly there is nothing about the Imperial race that is attractive, I think right now people just see "Unique bonuses, crafting styles and gear" and think there is really more to it than it is. They are really just another race that has nothing special unless you are really into the Imperials and how their low level armor looks. Keep in mind they will be available at some point post launch for anyone who seriously wants it but refuses to pay for them.

I really think the people who wanted to play the Imperials and now can are the only ones getting the short end of the stick here, your are going to be playing a race that wasn't designed originally into the game so you will end up talking to NPC's that treat you like a race from their faction and it's just going sound and feel awkward. To anyone else, who wasn't heart broken for them being in the game, it's just a race that looks different.

I hope that one of these days they will announce that you can play as an imperial anyway if you unlock it somehow.

If this is not the case I'm very dissapointed. But I love the game too much already to not buy and play.

The way I feel is that they were deliberately hiding a finished playable race, and I'm afraid they might pull the same stuff with the shop in the future.
Of course fingers crossed that that doesn't happen.

We feel that putting pay gates between the players and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom - Matt Firor

They proved with this move that you can't trust them. I'm saying this as a fan of ESO that was liking pretty much everything I heard about the game.

Now, I like the game based on my experience with it (interpret as you see fit) - and I'm going to play it.

But I'm now entering with much less excitement about the future.

Developers who have no integrity and who support P2W are not my thing.

No, the Imperial race likely won't skew balance much - but it DOES have powers other races don't have. Whether or not they're "objectively" more powerful is beside the point.

Introducing unique powers for players paying extra in a SUBSCRIPTION based game is a MAJOR integrity issue.

Very, very bad move.

If this is their way of STARTING the game - think about what happens down the line when it's not as popular.

As for blind faith from players who can't be critical of a game without fearing they lose something - bring on your denial bashing. But you know what I'm saying is true. How big a deal it is - depends on your point of view, obviously.

I...I...I...I...I'd cry for you....but I just bought the imperial edition. So I'll just laugh at you instead.

to me a new race is too important, i am guessing that its just like a title or something and the ability to craft the gear and wear it. I don't really see how they could just toss a secret race in out of the blue but honestly we really dont know until the clear the water for us and tell us exactly what it is. If it is a race i would guess like you suggested it could be unlocked or something, in eq later on they had hidden races someone on the server had to do a quest to unlock the certain race then everyone could use it. Which was pretty cool, maybe it will be something like that, we just dont know right now.

Ok, thanks I guess.

It's a race, perfectly clear. The Imperials have been a playable race in TES since Skyrim.

The armor style, though, should be available to any crafter who can find the book (yes, that's an assumption).

The definition of P2W?

Do you know something about the Imperial passives that nobody else knows yet?

You MAY have a case. It depends ENTIRELY on what those passives are. If they are an "I WIN" button, then yes.

Seems unlikely though

If the point is what your thread title says the point is, it is anything but beside the point

No, no it is not.

There is no winning in an MMO if you want to go there.

It doesn't matter what the powers are - as they represent unique powers that only paying people have access to. It means power-related advantages that people can only have if they pay extra for it. It's not about "winning" a game that's unwinnable anyway.

Look at the quote from Matt - and then look at the Imperial Edition.