When the word "Legion" is used, does it in any way refer to the Imperial Legion being similar to the Roman Legion?

Are the militaries similar in fighting style/tactics/Legions, ect, ect.....?

I think the term first appeared in Morrowind, where the Imperial Legion was just a striaght 100% knock off of the Roman legions, even so to their copying Roman Armour instead of making their own.

It was not a "knock-off." Many cultures and styles used in the Elder Scrolls are based off of real cultures that existed in the past. Rome was a strong influence for the Imperials, England for High Rock, Mesopatamia for the Dwemer, and so on.

To answer your question, BM, you can look at the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imperial_Legion on the Imperial Legion at the UESP and the http://www.imperial-library.info for other references.

First mentioned in Redguard, when the term Imperial was not in common use. The Cyrodilic ethnicity was Cyro-Nordic and the Legions were solidly Colovian and more likely to be called the Red Legions, as befitting what is called the Ruby West.

Ah thank you. I never thought to use the Wiki. And I have done a (although, admitedly rushed) search at the IL.

So, basically, from what I gathered from that article, yes. And I quote:

That'd just be the art. There really isn't any significant info on them.

In morrowind there was a Deathshead (or something) Legion,a Buckmoth Legion and a Moonmoth Legion.
So when you say the Imperial Legion, do you then mean all the smaller legions that together is the Imperial Legion?
just a little confused :S

Someone must be playing Morrowind right now so they can correct - I think they are Legion Forts = of the Legion - and the Whole Armed Corps is the Imperial Legion rather than the Imperial Legions, but they also refer to legions within the Legion. Generally the officers are Legion Officers, but they have not gone all the way nor totally copied all the fine detail so there are huge differences - I think of it more as sort of playing with sensibilities - heavily armored guys standing shoulder to shoulder - and bags of similar stuff.

They also had the commanding officer recruiting for the Legion Unit stationed at Gnisis ... etc ... but it still did not feel strictly 'Roman' in the true sense. For one thing the Romans never faced magic. I sorta feel that something of La Legion Etranger (the French Foreign Legion) has crept in there even though it is intended to be Ancient Roman.

I would say yes.

The word legion when used in the bible, Rome, and Elder Scrolls implies a unified body. They are the legion. Indiscernible. One army, one power. It is not to say that they copied Rome, but that they have a similar idea. Yes, there are many smaller forts with their own legions. I understood these as being similar to battalions under a single flag. Still one "Legion".

Why do you ask?

Yes it was. Just look at their armor. It looks just like they took it straight form the move Gladiator. Heck, the "Imperial Broadsword" is just a Gladius. I found the Imperial legion in Morrowind to be very uninspiring and uncreative.

The movie Galdiator is not exactly what I would consider a totally 'reliable source' - and it appeared to copy other movies even less reliable.

Don't wikki - find some serious books (if they still print them) and discover what the Ancient Romans were really about.

:thumbsup: That was not a lackluster contribution lackluster - suits Roman military philosophy down to the ground.

Check out the Nord Legion people at their HQ in Ebonheart - their conversation might make things clear.

just wondering

Hmm, I play MW, and I have to say that the Legionl armor is a tad bit different than lorica segmenta. And the legion garrisons are indeed simila battalions.

i wonder why Beth didnt have them in Oblivion instead of that generic fantasy armor.

or is there a mod ive missed?

how is it more generic than morrowind? you guys just complain until you have a crazy alien armor even if it doesnt make any sense as long as its inovative, i could argue that everything is generic..

i like to think of the change in the imperial armor as practical, like morrowind legion armor was used there because it fitted the enviroment and was easier to manuever with them, at least is the way i think of it when i play both games.

Even though I'm a Daggerfaller first, Morrowinder second, and I hate Oblivion, I have to agree that I saw nothing wrong with the "traditional" medieval armor of Oblivion.

Variety is good, but Tamriel is not an entirely alien world. It's okay to have some exotic armor like in Morrowind, but remember, Morrowind is an exotic province. The Elder Scrolls has many real-life parallels and inspirations, no matter how much people try to claim it is entirely unique.

You all say that Oblivion was too generic, but you also must remember that anybody who grew up on Arena or Daggerfall said otherwise, for they, too, were quite tame (they had some minor variety such as the Arabic versions of Hammerfell, but still) - not so much as Oblivion, but still much moreso than Morrowind.

Of course most of the people on this forum grew up on Morrowind first, so they think that The Elder Scrolls Series is supposed to be a carbon copy of Morrowind. Believe it or not, things were different before you came along.

Yep, youngins, things were diffrent back 'round the gold rush. Now run along, ya young whipppershnappers, you should be playing stickball.

OB's legion armor is really cool. It just doesn't seem very believable to have something called a Legion running around in full plate armor, wielding expensive, ghost-killing swords. Cyrodiil in general is too Fablesque for me.

Tamriel wasn't very detailed in Arena and Daggerfall. As far as many people on this board are concerned, http://www.imperial-library.info/pge/ document marks the creation of Tamriel as a complete, detailed world. It's weird in places, but even the most familiar provinces of the 1st PGE are creative and compelling, not the least because everything is seen through a screen on competing bias. Things were different back then, and then they got better. So when Oblivion not only jettisons every vestige of the alien Cyrodiil, but neglects all intriguing mundane details as well, it's understandable that we're miffed.

Ok lets look at some other stuff. Redguard for instance, strange abilities with the sword and what not. Hm asian cultures much?

Khajiit, they wear clothing and dont show to much of their body in public as it is offensive. They wear lots of jewelry as a sign of their worship to certain dieties, in battle they use light/medium armour.

middle eastern much?

Then theres the Tsaesci and Ka'Po'Tun.. Japanese samurai and ninja types.

The bretons are largely inspired by the french.


Could go on all day but eventually i'll have to consult TIL to go indepth instead of just saying what i remember, but basically, every culture is based on another culture, just because of that it doesnt mean they are rip off's.

Roman legions were made up of Romans. The Imperial Legion, at least in Morrowind, really was more like the french foreign legion in many ways, especially that they recruit foreigners(non-cyrodils and even non-humans) and send them wherever they might need them. The Imp Legion is also not organized at all like the Roman legion. In fact the only real similarities would be weapons, shields, and the armor in some aspects although really the helmets are the only match to Roman armor. They don't make fortifications that look anything alike either.

The armor(MW) in my opinion was fine, it certainly evoked the "roman" feel, but look different enough in my opinion to be it's own thing, and I'm sad they didn't at least expand on this more in Oblivion. Anyhow, the Legion in Oblivion were lacking in many other ways, and didn't feel anything like a Legion, much less the legion that supposedly helped conquer Tamriel and is able to keep it under Imperial control. They were more or less relegated to just law enforcement. I suppose this might be natural, that Legions in different provinces will be different, and that in the "home" province they may not want the Legion as a full blown military force that could potentially be used against the Emperor/Elder Council. If the next TES takes place in Skyrim, we can probably expect to see a different look for the Legion, and hopefully they will be more interesting as well.

As far as I'm concerned, those weren't even Legionaries. They were provincial guards drawn from a largely ceremonial wing of the Legion which is restricted to Imperial males from the equestrian classes.

although i dont "like" you for hating oblivion -_- i agree, i said many times that morrowind is supposed to look like that and that cyrodill is more earth like, they are different provinces, morrowind isnt that unique, its a swampy like mixed with vulcanic dust place, i couldnt see cyrodill, being the imperials based on the romans, as having as much alien architecture as morrowind.

That doesn't stop it from being a knockoff, those other cultures are knockoffs too, except the Dwemer, because I'm fairly certain Mesopotamians never made robots

Like most other fantasy settings, many aspects of the Elder Scrolls are based very heavily on real world cultures, mythology, or past works of fantasy, Morrowind just did a better jo at concealing it than most fantasy games.



Because Oblivion is as a whole generic fantasy, where as Morrowind tries to be creative in many places.

The Imperial Legion in Morrowind didn't seem particularly creative, though, that was one of the less creative areas of the game.



I came along with Morrowind, however, when I played Daggerfall (which I should add, I liked, but not for its environments.) my belief that all of the Elder Scrolls world was as creative as Morrowind, but that doesn't change the fact that in many ways, Morrowind represents what I hope to see in the future of the series, that doesn't mean I want every Elder Scrolls game to be the same as Morrowind, I would hardly say that, for why should Cyrodiil look like a volcanic island far to its east? Rather, I want to see Bethesda keep the same quality of artistic design in future games, I want each new game to show me something new, not just something I've already seen dozens of times in other works of fantasy. And with Oblivion, Bethesda had a much more interesting view of Cyrodiil already presented in the Pocket Guide, yet instead of using that, they changed it into Generic Fantasy Land. Some would argue that the Elder Scrolls world was like this back in Arena and Daggerfall, that doesn't mean we should go back to it. Sequels should bring a game forward, not take steps back, sometimes, that means refining the setting as well as gameplay.

You seem to forget that Redgaurd and Morrowind didn't just flesh out their respective cultures, they fleshed out the whole world. You can not see the games as distinct packages that exist independently from each other, each of them is a time slice of what should be seen as an ever continuing expansion of lore.

Now both Morrowind and Redgaurds Pocket Guide to the Empire describe a Cyrodiil that is more interesting then the current generic fantasy province and Oblivion doesn't just fail to live up to this, it blatantly ignores it.

Hell. I can't believe you actually dare to say that things were different in Daggerfall and use that to defend Oblivion. Daggerfall might have had a generic setting, it didn't have a paper thin plot with huge holes in it.

Indeed, it had a rather labyrinthine plot with twists and political intrigues.

(And not much else -- but that's a different story).

Also, on the Legions: they have this great http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o2gf7jJhYs&feature=PlayList&p=F500B5150A6BD87C&playnext=1&index=53 campaign going on.