[RELz] Impervious Power Armour : Fallout 3

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:32 pm

hey talkie, still getting the healing thing im afraid. i've tried the mult setting from .75 to 1.5, im still getting healed by about 1 hp.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:43 am

The survival rate of the Outcast and Bos have increased dramatically since installing this, hopefully the bos will survive the attack against the moment when the mall respawns in this game. I'm looking forward to my first encounter with a power armoured enemy although some magnetic mines would come in handy, I have this mental image of a power armour wearer running around "get it off me" before it goes off.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:35 pm

The survival rate of the Outcast and Bos have increased dramatically since installing this, hopefully the bos will survive the attack against the moment when the mall respawns in this game. I'm looking forward to my first encounter with a power armoured enemy although some magnetic mines would come in handy, I have this mental image of a power armour wearer running around "get it off me" before it goes off.

Haha, why has nobody thought of that? Even worse, a magnetic spidermine.
1) scuttle towards enemy PA
2) stick to enemy armor
3) ???
4) Profit!

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:58 pm

hey talkie, still getting the healing thing im afraid. i've tried the mult setting from .75 to 1.5, im still getting healed by about 1 hp.

Well, bugger. A 1.3 is in order, then, adding yet another global.

Anyone got any more ideas to implement? I figure once this is fixed I should hopefully be able to wrap this mod up as 'Actually finished'.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:01 am

Well, I was getting the effect with leather armor which I thought was a bit weird. Maybe some FWE incompatability? That's the only mod I have that would touch it.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:31 am

Well, I was getting the effect with leather armor which I thought was a bit weird. Maybe some FWE incompatability? That's the only mod I have that would touch it.

That does sound pretty odd- try calling GetAV Variable07 and Variable08 on the player, see if it returns anything.

I've also noticed a slight problem with FWE and balance. If the player's in power armour, it'll typically be 100% condition offering about 80% resistance, whilst if NPCs are in it it'll be around 50% condition offering 40% resist. If you and an Enclave Soldier are shooting at each other with laser rifles, his shots get resisted by 80% down to 20 damage which you reduce to 0, whilst your shots get resisted by 40% down to 60 damage which blazes straight through his armour. It's worse when you take into account weapon condition. This problem arises from FWE setting armour to be 100% dependent on condition, which irritatingly it seems to do via script. When I relz the next update it'll have an optional module to change armour rating to be 70% base, 30% condition which should minimise the problem as well as make Enclave much harder.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:18 pm

Wow, I just did the Waters of Life quest. Those Enclave are TOUGH. Here I was struttin' around in my Outcast can thinking I'm all that. My best gun barely put a scratch in them. They're kind of scary now.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:31 pm

That does sound pretty odd- try calling GetAV Variable07 and Variable08 on the player, see if it returns anything.

I've also noticed a slight problem with FWE and balance. If the player's in power armour, it'll typically be 100% condition offering about 80% resistance, whilst if NPCs are in it it'll be around 50% condition offering 40% resist. If you and an Enclave Soldier are shooting at each other with laser rifles, his shots get resisted by 80% down to 20 damage which you reduce to 0, whilst your shots get resisted by 40% down to 60 damage which blazes straight through his armour. It's worse when you take into account weapon condition. This problem arises from FWE setting armour to be 100% dependent on condition, which irritatingly it seems to do via script. When I relz the next update it'll have an optional module to change armour rating to be 70% base, 30% condition which should minimise the problem as well as make Enclave much harder.

That's because that option is configurable in FWE.
Just set the Equipment Wear Rate option in the "Damage+Combat settings" submenu to Vanilla (atleast if I'm thinking of the right gamesetting).

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:18 am

Nah, I'm talking about fArmorRatingConditionBase/Mult. They're unaffected by the wear rate settings.

E: I finally got around to uploading 1.3. Has the Offset feature you can use to negate overheal, and the Enclave fixer.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:08 am

I figured out a better way around the FWE problems. The v1 of IPA applied Reduction after resistance, now v2 does it the other way around- so if you were in a 50 AR suit, with 10 reduction and got hit by a 20 damage shot...

v1 regular: 20 Damage ---> 50% Resistance -> 10 Damage -> 10 Reduction -> 0 Damage
v1 threshold: 20 Damage -> 50% Resistance -> 10 Damage -> 10 Reduction -> 0 Damage
v2 regular: 20 Damage ---> 10 Reduction -> 10 Damage -> 50% Reduction -> 5 Damage
v2 threshold: 20 Damage -> 10 Reduction ignored -> 20 Damage -> 50% Reduction -> 10 Damage

Now hits with base damage above your Resistance really have more of an influence- no more being immune to 100 damage sniper rifle crits because you've got 90% Resistance.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:10 am

I figured out a better way around the FWE problems. The v1 of IPA applied Reduction after resistance, now v2 does it the other way around- so if you were in a 50 AR suit, with 10 reduction and got hit by a 20 damage shot...

v1 regular: 20 Damage ---> 50% Resistance -> 10 Damage -> 10 Reduction -> 0 Damage
v1 threshold: 20 Damage -> 50% Resistance -> 10 Damage -> 10 Reduction -> 0 Damage
v2 regular: 20 Damage ---> 10 Reduction -> 10 Damage -> 50% Reduction -> 5 Damage
v2 threshold: 20 Damage -> 10 Reduction ignored -> 20 Damage -> 50% Reduction -> 10 Damage

Now hits with base damage above your Resistance really have more of an influence- no more being immune to 100 damage sniper rifle crits because you've got 90% Resistance.

Has this had any impact on the overhealing issue that you have seen in your testing thus far?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:52 am

Maybe I'm seeing this wrong but it seems that whenever less than 10 damage is dealt I actually GAIN the damage difference in health. Some guys were shooting me with chinese pistols and sometimes I got no damage but sometimes I got 1-3 HP back.

This is with default settings.

Edit: Just read about the ImperviousOffset setting, I guess it's a known problem then.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:44 am

Has this had any impact on the overhealing issue that you have seen in your testing thus far?

It should be the same, the script changes haven't really touched the damage calculation as much as shuffled it about.

Maybe I'm seeing this wrong but it seems that whenever less than 10 damage is dealt I actually GAIN the damage difference in health. Some guys were shooting me with chinese pistols and sometimes I got no damage but sometimes I got 1-3 HP back.

For some reason the damage is occasionally calculated to be 0.5-1 higher than the actual damage. I've not found an actual reason for it, unfortunately.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:53 am

For some reason the damage is occasionally calculated to be 0.5-1 higher than the actual damage. I've not found an actual reason for it, unfortunately.

That is actually why I was thinking that it might have an impact... thinking that based on your example, fewer instances of "0" final adjusted damage would result in fewer places where a single point difference would be less of an issue.

(Ie: 20 damage - 50% - 10 DR = 0, rounding problem results in -1 for a total of "-1 damage" or 1 healing)
vs.
20 damage - 10 DR - 50% = 5, rounding problem results in -1 for a total of 4 damage)

That is what I was thinking that might translate into... but then again I might just be misunderstanding where the problem is (I haven't actually done the nittygritty testing on my own yet to see the behavior and track it in detail).

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:50 am

The strange thing is it's not a rounding error. In 1.0, I had the equation split up into 3 stages using different variables. By 1.2 I condensed it all into a single expression, and the overheal didn't change. It's very odd as the calculations are done on floats which should store 8 sig fig, but the errors are in the region of 0.5-1 even on hits for 4-5 damage where that'd correspond to a crazy 20% error, which you wouldn't get through rounding something which stores that fine detail. And they're about 0.5-1 for higher damages too, which doesn't suggest there's a consistent bug in the rounding knocking it off by X%.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:22 pm

Hello, just wanted to ask if there is a way to make this mod work with (Pipboy-PDA) _{http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12144}?
It seems the author of the PDA mod retired from modding so I cant ask him for help. I opened the impervious power armor along with the pda mod and found no error on FO3Edit. I wonder if its because of the fose script checker the pipboy pda has?
Anyways I hope you guys can help me, if its unfixable then I guess i have to say byebye to the PDA.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:58 am

It works with Readius just fine, at least for me. I don't know about PDA though.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:28 am

Oppps sorry my bad there are two pipboy mods, I didnt know. I'm having conflicts with "Pipboy Readius" not the PDA one but both created by the legendary Alexscorpion. What I noticed is whenever I have Readius on the set imperviousmessage command or the other commands doesn't work. I tried setting it to 0 but I still get the message whenever I exit the pipboy. Also the mod affects all armors not just PA. and When I turn off the "Pipboy Readius" TheTalkieToaster's awesome mod works just fine. I'll try reinstalling a fresh "Pipboy Readius" without using FO3Edits clean identical to master and master update functions. Will update again after checking.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:59 am

I think this would work better if the DR worked as a DT. For example, if an actor hits the player for 10, the player suffers no damage, but if the player is hit for 11, he suffers 11 damage (reduced by AR, natch) but doesn't automatically just shrug off the first 10 points.

It's still an amazingly good idea and I have it downloading now.

Edit: Don't mind me, seems you already did this in an update. Nice one!

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:41 pm

Hello, just wanted to ask if there is a way to make this mod work with (Pipboy-PDA) _{http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12144}?
It seems the author of the PDA mod retired from modding so I cant ask him for help. I opened the impervious power armor along with the pda mod and found no error on FO3Edit. I wonder if its because of the fose script checker the pipboy pda has?
Anyways I hope you guys can help me, if its unfixable then I guess i have to say byebye to the PDA.

The latest version should work with Readius, I did some testing.
I've just put an update up, mostly for use with a future RobCo patch. It also slightly changes the way ImperviousMult is used, as it now takes the global damage mult into account automatically.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:42 pm

Is there new version of PipBoy Readius out? I have 1.4 currently installed. Tried the following:
Reinstalled Fallout 3 GOTY
Installed FOSE latest version 1.2b
Run the game with Impervious Power Armor.esm and 1PipBoyPDA.esp only.
Still having the problem with imperviousmessage to 0 not working and I can see my health go up when I get damaged by high caliber weapons. But I can tell it somehow works because I take no damage when being punched by enemies and other weak weapons.
I'm using an DarnifiedUI + Interface Revelation by the way. I'm going crazy here any suggestions?
When I disable 1PipBoyPDA.esp all works fine.

Update* removed the FOSE script checker and its references on the 1PipBoyPDA.esp using FO3Edit and now it works, at least for the set imperviousmessage to 0 will have to test and see if there are repercussions on the edit i did.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:11 am

I'm seeing other enemies (the enclave) have their health bars 'wobble' when firing with a high damage machine gun like FWE's M60, without it having any significant overall effect. It seems to go down then up by a small amount. Only headshots seem to have a significant effect on overall health. The weird thing is that their limbs get crippled at the same time. I can cripple 3 or 4 limbs without affecting overall health much at all.

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Fallout3.esm01  Anchorage.esm02  ThePitt.esm03  BrokenSteel.esm04  PointLookout.esm05  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm  [Version 1.2.0]06  Impervious Power Armour.esm07  CRAFT.esm08  CALIBR.esm  [Version 1.3]09  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm0A  SS Weapon Effects.esm0B  Mart's Mutant Mod.esm0C  Companion Core.esm0D  RobCo Certified v2.esm0E  DCInteriors_ComboEdition.esm0F  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp  [Version 1.2.0]10  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp  [Version 1.2.0]11  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp  [Version 1.2.0]12  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp  [Version 1.2.0]13  DarNifiedUIF3.esp14  CASM.esp15  CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp16  TinCanCRAFTing.esp  [Version 2.0]17  More Hotkeys.esp18  Feng Shui.esp  [Version 0.9.2]19  UPP - Experience Perks.esp1A  UPP  - Quest Perks.esp++  RobotFrenzy.esp1B  implants.esp1C  EpFimplants.esp1D  NotSoFast.esp1E  MrLabTechnician.esp1F  BlackWolf Backpack.esp++  BlackWolf Backpack - Vanilla Big Guns Fix.esp++  BlackWolf Backpack - Anchorage Gauss Rifle Fix.esp20  BlackWolf Backpack - Blank's Container Patch.esp21  WastelandMastery.esp22  Mannequin.esp23  Trophies- Tenpenny.esp24  Underworld Underground.esp25  Water_Tower_Hideout_byOrophin.esp26  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp27  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp28  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp29  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp2A  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp2B  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Alternate Travel.esp2C  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Followers Enhanced (BrokenSteel).esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Restore Tracers (automatics only).esp++  RobCo Certified v2 FWE Patch.esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - EpFtweaks.esp2D  WeaponModKits.esp2E  WeaponModKits - FWE Master Release.esp2F  WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp30  WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp31  WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp32  WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp33  AdvancedReconGear.esp34  Powered Power Armor.esp35  PPA - Broken Steel.esp36  PPA - Operation Anchorage.esp37  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt - EpFashurT51bEnch.esp38  EpFashurT51bArmor.esp++  EpFashurT51b PPA patch.esp39  Burnification.esp3A  FleshBurningPlasma.esp++  Improved Turret Reprogramming - ALL.esp++  SS Weapon Effects.esp++  SS Weapon Effects Pile Removal.esp3B  Mart's Mutant Mod.esp3C  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp3D  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp3E  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp++  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp3F  Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.esp40  Owned!.esp  [Version 3.0]41  Savage Wasteland - Fewer Gun Wielding Maniacs.esp42  SavageWasteland_UnfoundLoot_1_3.esp43  kikaiLibertyRifle.esp44  Big and Small.esp45  Dialogue Tweaks.esp++  Better_Talon_Faces_v1.esp46  ReconArmorMKII.esp++  ReconArmorMKII - EpFtweaks.esp++  AdvancedReconGear - EpFtweaks.esp47  Crossbow.esp48  EpFspitBomb.esp49  EpFspitBombMMM.esp4A  EpFtweaks.esp++  Pause.esp4B  Bashed Patch, Gerdy.esp

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:37 pm

I'm seeing other enemies (the enclave) have their health bars 'wobble' when firing with a high damage machine gun like FWE's M60, without it having any significant overall effect. It seems to go down then up by a small amount. Only headshots seem to have a significant effect on overall health. The weird thing is that their limbs get crippled at the same time. I can cripple 3 or 4 limbs without affecting overall health much at all.

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QUIRKS
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The mod works by healing you by the amount of damage you've taken when you're hit. This is pretty rapid but occasionally, you may see your HP drop then go back up. It also means that if you're on 20HP with 10 Damage Reduction and take a 20 damage hit, you'll die rather than survive at 10HP. So, be careful and don't keep your health at rock bottom.

Whilst your limb damage is reduced by wearing Power Armour, unfortunately NPCs isn't; they will take full limb damage.

Please read the readme before asking questions in future. And use a little common sense; this mod specifically nerfs high ROF weapons vs power armour, so it's hardly surprising that a machine gun is doing sod all.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:48 am

Please read the readme before asking questions in future.

Ok, ok - I have read the readme, but it's been a while and I'd forgotten about that. I just started playing with a new character - my previous one didn't encounter this (different weapon skills) and I thought something was wrong.

And use a little common sense; this mod specifically nerfs high ROF weapons vs power armour, so it's hardly surprising that a machine gun is doing sod all.

There's no need to be so condescending. There's nothing in the readme that states that the mod 'specifically nerfs high ROF weapons'. It does say that in default mode 'a power armoured character will take little damage from anything weaker than a grenade'. I'm using default mode, and the M60 does 400+ damage vs. 165 from a grenade. Obviously it's calculated differently, but that is only obvious to me now, having looked at weapon damage in FO3Edit.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:34 am

It subtracts damage per hit, with the stated aim of making power armour immune to small arms. That's a mechanic that specifically nerfs high ROF weapons, and the intent to nerf a weapons class largely defined by their high ROF. If I made it any more explicit in the readme and description I would be insulting the users' intelligence.

It should also be pretty obvious that a weapon down as dealing 400 damage is not dealing 400 damage per hit, particularly when it's a machinegun where the whole point of it is it deals high damage by firing lots of bullets, and it's inexcusable to think so when it's from FWE which specifically includes a weapon scanner you can use to find individual bullet damage and weapon ROF.