You would love survival level then. Sneaking is a must and it's downright scary. On only level 3 I encountered a raider with a minigun. It took me four tries to kill her (I had to get the jump on her and I mean really get the jump) but when I finally did it my celebration was short lived as another raider picked up the minigun from their fallen comrade and tore me to pieces.. Next try I was even more careful and I managed to make it out alive with the minigun and extra 700 rounds of ammo.. Much more rewarding than normal mode where I could have done it with limited sneaking.

There are still certain places I just can't go. One place in particular involves some raiders, one of whom is wearing power armor and using a launcher. I'm going to have to come back when I'm strong enough and that is how games should be.

I've had a blast leveling up to 41. I just unlocked Science 4, which lets me do pretty much any mod I want with Gun Nut and Armorer maxed as well. Now that I have this unlocked, I'm wondering what I will face in the wasteland that will actually challenge me. Not to mention I just found an explosive combat shotgun.

The first 40 levels or so were my favorite, but I worry about my enjoyment going beyond. I will probably be dipping into companion relationships and in-depth settlement building to keep my interest. I'm happy I didn't achieve God-Mode by level 15, as it is part of the journey of rebuilding the commonwealth.

Was just thinking about this as I write this post, but I think it would be cool if they had the perks, or at least some, locked behind certain quests. Maybe if you complete a water mission, you get one rank in aquaboy, or an accuracy competition with a rifle to increase rifleman perk. Little stuff like this would actually feel like my character learned or grew from an experience in-game instead of just leveling up. This would require serious revamping of the current system, but could be well worth it in the long-run.

No. I don't know how I can be smarter in computer hacking after I killed many enemies enough to 21 lvl of experience.

But.

1. If I was programmer before war, I _CAN BE_ hacker GOD in the start of game. Yes, bad shooting, may be, bad surviving, but THE BEST in the hacking. It is OK.

2. I can be smarter in hacking WHEN I hacked many terminals. It is OK too. For example, after hacking 50 easy terminals I can hack hard terminals. Yes? Yes.

3. Or every science book give me ability to hack one hard terminal. Or every rare hacking device. It is OK.

4. Or every NPC engineer I speak can give me knowledge equal to 5 hacked terminals (for a quest).

5. The same with hacking of robots.

^^This is interesting RPG elements. But kill-all and become god is a pure shooter.

So here in F4 I see ARTIFICIAL limits for sweet gaming. Without any alternatives.

I've seen this complaint before. You are basically complaining that your desired playstyle was to exploit the character systems in previous games and since you can't do that in this game, the game is a bad design..... I disagree.

The best one is an anemy of a good one. Do you know?

Actually YOU ARE RIGHT - if once I played with GOOD character system, now I can play only in GOOD, in BETTER and in THE BEST character system. Otherwise game will be BAD. You are absolutely right!

F1-2: EXCELLENT character system.

F3-NV: GOOD but SIMPLIFIED character system - SPECIALS has less weight, easy to obtain.

F4: BAD character system - SPECIALS used as artificial limits for perks, perk has artificial limits by level.

F5: No character system at all or something worst?

...you do remember that you could, in FO1/2, shoot a bunch of people (gain XP & levels), and then spend those skill points on skills that had nothing to do with shooting people, right? So if you're praising FO1 & 2, you can't use that complaint.

Your rating system is completely subjective to your own opinion and to be brutally honest, I'm not 100% sure what you are trying to say (I'm guessing English ins't your first language). I think what you are saying is that the game is not a good fit for YOU (and there is nothing wrong with that). What I'm saying is that fact does NOT make it a bad game for other players.

I havn't tried that no lvl perk requirement mod yet, but its certainly something i'll do in my next playthrough.

Play more specifically towards how I want from the first 20 levels.

All Ok. It is (was) feature of fallout series. But not now.

Now I still can't understand artificial limits for perk ranks. And it is not complaint. It is proposal for compensation perk limits. And question.

It could be whine, but only If i say "do something better i don't know how but do it bla bla bla". No. I propose options for change too.

One more time.

Why skill system so dramatically changed for the worse?

You are RIGHT again. But. This game is RPG. And you must know now it is 2015. No 1995, no 2005. Now we have endless source of released RPG's and can see good and best ideas therein.

May be current skill system is not good fit for ME. Yes. But it does not mean it is good for all other gamers too.

And. Do you seriously think this is the best implementation of a system of perks in a Fallout series, and among all other RPG games?

I guess an option could be to let us pick two or three perks right after we give that VaultTec guy our SPECIAL. After the SPECIAL they could have him ask "Do you have any special stills?" and then we could have selected a couple Perks right at the beginning to help 'define' our character a little before the game starts. But honestly every TES or FO game you basically start as a big zero. In older TES games you could select a race that gave some abilities and skill bonuses, but they've taken that away now and FO never really had it.

You are absolutely RIGHT!

@Ancorage (quoting function not working):

My proposal for Fallout 5 character system is a couple posts before yours, but I'll expand it even more:

We assign the points to our SPECIALS at character creation, and these stay stagnant for the entire game unless you collect bobbleheads, visit a re-spec trainer, etc.

The perks are then locked behind quests scattered throughout the wasteland. These quests will only unlock if you have the right amount of points in a certain SPECIAL and maybe some other type of condition such as close to an area, or need to complete the previous quest in the 'perk chain'. I think it would be pretty cool to have an 'Intelligent' character have a slightly different playthough than a 'Luck'-y one, etc.

Completing military obstacle courses for Commando perks, a VATS duel for Gunslinger, helping out settlers with an irradiated water spill for Rad resist, freeing enslaved settlers for lockpicking, etc. etc.. Within this system, there needs to be a distinct good vs. bad in dialogue options as well. You should still be able to get the perk reward for however you decide to complete the quest and not locked based on moral choice. However, it would be cool if these moral choices were remembered by the game and the NPC's can treat you according to how you completed these quests.

I would feel a deeper connection with the world Bethesda built for us instead of just trying to plan my build through the perk chart.

Need more thought on what rewards the player would get for normal leveling though. More health and maybe a token they can turn in for leveled gear. I believe this system would put them back on track for being a true RPG as well.

By level 5 in Fallout 1, 2, 3, and FNV everyone pretty much maxed out a weapon skill usually Small Guns, though there were exceptions. In Fo1 I remember taking Luck 10 wandering the Wasteland till I got the UFO encounter picking up the Alien Blaster Pistol and then maxing out my energy weapons skill pretty much by level 5 having the most powerful build in the game. From what I'm reading it just sounds like some people miss being able to easily abuse the game mechanics just like that with a clear cut route to "I win button" with many words in tidy sentences to obfuscate the reality of what it is that they want.

The only game that I've ever played that allowed players to essentially hit Mastery in a given skill so quickly outside of Fallout was the Whitewolf system and even then in that game skills were not as important as perks and magic abilities.

For the most part every RPG has gated perks or power levels and starting off extremely powerful or withen hours of being "capped" doesn't make a lot of since in RPG's hince why its not prevalent in all RPG's across different developers.

A not too popular point is that making the players very powerful actually shortens the lifespan of the game. In fact there were quite a few mods for Fo3 and FNV aimed at gimping the player when used as intended by the mod creators such as Fallout Wasteland Wanderer and Project Nevada both of which had optionals that could severely reduce the gains of skill points and even totally gimped Bobbleheads and SkillBooks. Yet somehow people say oh no its a weak system if I cant start the game as an expert marksman or genius computer hacker.

Got news for you, you can be awesome the moment you walk out of the vault without VATS...Its called JET shlick ahh yaaa....Tweeeak have a bullet to the head Mr. Raider...Ya that 10mm with a hairtrigger is nice, and why reload just change to the next 10mm pistol haha. Sometimes I just wonder if people use the powerups in this game. Also as far as hacking the characters intelligence effects how easy it is to hack a terminal so ya if your just pulling in at a 4 well good luck.

Actually I never used this mod as I found the game too easy. I am just pointing out mod solve everything in fallout world

Huh. Yeah, I never did that. I was usually building up several skills alongside each other, to have a balanced set of abilities.

....seriously, people really did that?

my biggest gripe is the lack of respect capabilities. It also appears to me that perks are WAY more important than special stats and getting the right ones early on can significantly change the way you experience the game. too bad there's not a 'special' machine that lest you re-allocate all your points up to whatever level you are. just make it cost a boat load of caps or hard to find items, like the machine you build during the molecular quest.

I know right ppl think what they get on game is actualy the base of leveling system for RPG.

I cant remember the last time i play a pen and paper RPG where i didnt have abilities=perks that are lock behind level.

U realize that F4 system is the most balance since Fo1 right????

yeah it was super easy after i figure it out the Int give u more skill point, u can be max level on most skill by level 15-18sh. Making the game super easy.

So i seriously i dont understand the OP post about no been able to become god at level 20.

I admit I am begining to loath the current system. To be specific the level caps on perks, combined with hiding weapons/armors behind level requirements. (like never seeing combat armor before x level, and never heavy combat before y.) Its freaking annoying, because those are the armors that actually look decent.

Removing a level requirement on perks would make certain character "specializations" or "backgrounds" rather balance breaking. Think lvl 5 with maxed science or gun nut perks. Much like getting an alien blaster in FO1 at level 5 as someone mentioned.

or, thanks to a combination of stuff, having over 50 speech at level 1 in fallout new vegas, while still having decent skills in everything else.

By itself maby. If you combined it with an uncapper that allowed enemies to get a chance at decent weapons/armor.. It'd balance out, or at least be as well balanced as the game is currently. *shrugs* At least it'd make things interesting.

it reflects your characters growth from being a pre war person out of time, your family and life taken from you and being dropped into a post apocalyptic wasteland. this has been one of the most easy to get into settings in fallout as its relatable (we all live pretty happy these days and not in a post apocalyptic wasteland so our character (as well as us) being dropped into this world feels very natural as we are both going through the same thing.

BACKSTORY and CHARACTER HISTORY are very easy to exploit, and I have seen this in many forms of gaming I have participated in. people write up things like "I'm a king and have an army etc. its in my backstory!" um. . .no, no you are not and no you don't.

your character may have a motivational history that defines what they WANT to do, but often when they have a history that contains grand feats they have ALREADY done I often find it to be overly grand, op, and used to attempt to exploit a system or pander an ego.

so you want to play an expert computer hacker, or a thief, or whatever. fine, your character wants to be that too, its what they want to be when they grow up. so grow up, LEVEL UP, and invest in the skills required to grow into what you want to be.

Luke Skywalker didn't start out a jedi master, he began a farmer with probably moderate perception, luck, and a wee bit of endurance. he had never seen another jedi or a lightsaber. but he went out, leveled up, and became what he wanted.

What RPG didn't have it where weapons/armors weren't behind level requirements? And I know many RPG's never actually had level requirements for weapons/armors, but in order to get to the shops that sold them, you have to reach a certain level to get to either move on to the next location, or be able to fight against mobs to get to the next location without dying.