What I see.

F1 - NW perks depends on levels, specials and skill.

F4 - perk ranks depends on level of player character.

All previous fallouts I could quickly get 100% skill or any perk rank.

For example, in F4 I can get Hacker rank 3 only at level 21. I can't use mentats to get higher rank temporary, I can't wear engineers robe etc.

BTW In Fallout 3 (no DLC) maximum player character level is 20.

Why? Yes, I can shoot from start. But is this shooter?

I can't select specialization. But I want be natural born genius! Before war I was:

1) soldier (all perks depends on weapon are unlocked at start of game)

2) engineer (all perks depends on electronic are unlocked at start of game)

3) trader (all perks depends on speech and money are unlocked at start of game)

4) athlete (all perks depends on physical training are unlocked at start of game)

5) etc

Where is RPG?

Fallout 5? I can't imagine, LoL.

welcome to the modding community of fallout. we welcome you with our heart http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/136/?

if you are console then here is a message from PC master race: "Too bad"

I think simply Bethesda noticed a huge majority of their fans like to grind freely and spend insane amounts of time in their games, so ending the game with a level cap killed the incentive to keep playing for level up. I think in the current system everyone can find a balance between how much grinding they can put up with and how much pleasure they get from any given character build.

As for player skill, I think this has always been a hybrid in Bethesda developed games, at least what I played from Morrowind on, and it's true Morrowind had more character skill over player skill but the trend has been obvious enough, nobody can honestly say they expected a character skill oriented rpg from Bethesda in 2015 unless they put themselves in cryogenics after Daggerfall and woke up today

While I agree that perks should not be locked behind level restrictions - and I'm sure that a wide variety of mods that rework perks will be released over the coming months - the title of this thread is ridiculous. I've been waiting for what seems like ages to get Gun Nut Rank 3, but I'm still having fun playing the game while I do!

Pretty much every class-based/specialization tabletop RPG I've ever played, has had the character's skill develop over levels as well. Yes, I can specialize as a Weapon Master Fighter in D&D.... but I won't fully unlock the skills until high level. I can specialize as a Evoker spellcaster, but won't be great at it until higher level.

Only thing missing in FO4 (as well as other Beth games) is that you're not declaring your specialization (and permanently locking out non-spec abilities) at level 1.

Well the Perks are locked behind BOTH level and SPECIAL skill.

Honestly I have had my concerns with this system and am wondering how it will be at later levels. My issue is that I know what kind of character I want to play ... the problem is I'll be 20+ level before I can actually play that character. It can be frustrating, but I still think it's a pretty good balance over what we had.

Overall I think the dependence on having a high CHR is too great. Especially if I'm playing a female and can't get Lady Killer as a Perk. But you just miss so much if you can't get through some of the dialog roadblocks.

I don't see how this removes RPG elements. Most RPGs you have build toward being great.

Hmm, not sure what I've missed yet, but I've been failing a good number of speech checks against males w/ 5CHA (3+hat/glasses) and 2 ranks of Black Widow.

Yeah, makes me wonder if we are really expected to have a 10+ CHR for Orange or Red dialog options. I was able to max out the fee to find the detective with a 6 CHR, +4 (clothes, hat, glasses) and two ranks in Lady Killer. I still can't get Danse to agree to anything though. Would love to really know the mechanics behind all of the dialog options.

Your really not. In most cases it's just more caps or a little more details on the quest.

You don't nee that high of a charisma for higher level dialogues. You can pass them at lower levels of charisma. Hell, you can save the game before the speech check and keep reloading until you pass it. It's all chance based-- higher charisma just gives you a higher chance of success. If you're willing to keep reloading, you'll pass it eventually.

I personally find Intelligence to once again be the main "forced" stat in FO. You need high Intelligence to get SCIENCE! which is needed for pretty much all the best mods, which requires 6 Intelligence. Other modding perk stats go no higher than 4.

Yes, this is correct. All of the Elder Scrolls games have been hybrid player skill / character skill (or "action/RPG") games, going all the way back to Arena.

If I am not mistaken it is RNG base, the higher the charisma the higher the chance. There once I success do the speech check with 3 charisma against red speech check

Pro tip: Graqe Mentats. They give like a +5 charisma boost, and you can take them in the middle of a conversation (just move away from the character for a second, open up the pip-boy, pop your ments and then get back in).

My current play-through I'm not using Science. I needed a 5 INT still for the scrapping Perk though, but this guy is just using traditional auto weapons. My next character will be the science gal.

because it's just not an rpg if you can't throw a wrench on the keyboard and walk away while your character practices being sneaky.

Fallout 3 and NV's system was just a solid port from fallout 1 and 2. It worked for those games... but was just awful in FO3 and NV. It was stupidly easy to break, and become a god by the time you're 10 hours in the game. It was also a severe problem when it came to player skill. You know... it's a game that a player is not reliant on chance. So why should his aim be effected by a freaking skill that effects accuracy and nothing else?

I personally liked the level restrictions. Sure it's annoying, but if you've ever played any table top game, that is pretty much a freaking standard with your character's attributes determining what feats or perks you can get.

Sure in DnD you may have a Base Attack Bonus as a restriction. But there's no way to improve that outside of leveling. And it's different per class.

The level cap limits you. In Fallout 4 there is no such limit. I think it's better.

I like this new system better because it realistically keeps you from hacking and lock picking if you haven't specialized for it.

Nick can hack medium level terminal for you BTW.

I think this may solve a lot of my issues with the perk system. Actually being able to play the character I want before I'm level 30 would be nice.

Yeah of course, how about just playing the game the way it was intended? Then you will complain because with mods the game crashes all the time because you're putting [censored] into the game which wasn't originally intended.

I just hit level 29 and I've been having a lot of fun. Your mileage may vary.

I actually really like the new level system. I enjoy not being able to access certain things in the beginning. The workbench for example. If I was able to create any weapon mod as long as I had the perk I could have amazing weapons at level 6.. Not good. I have to work hard and cosntantly keep my eye on that level 39 prize, rank 4 mods.

I find most Bethesda games far too easy. The first 20 levels are a challenge then you become a demigod. Playing on survival helps greatly to remedy that problem and being limited to do certain things till I reach a level makes it a good challenge.

stuff behind level walls so you have to advance in levels to be stronger......sounds like RPG mechanics to me.

Yeah that is so rewarding when you have to avoid enemies and scavenge to keep going, then you very slowly build up to be a good fighter and reach areas you avoided before. Those are the beauty of these games for me.